buddhism and science

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by cpt.scruffy, Dec 14, 2006.

  1. Sauna Banned Banned

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  3. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    I don't interpret God, reincarnation, a soul, etc...as supernatural...but atheists do. Who is Alan Watts? Some white guy? Yeah, thats what I thought...

    You can say the same about many Hindu philosophies also, as you can about any religion really....a "religion of no religion"....
     
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  5. Sauna Banned Banned

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  7. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Don't be dissin' the Watts, he's the dude. He has contributed alot to stripping Buddhism from it's supernatural and religious claptrap, and rekindling an interest in alot of Americans.
     
  8. Sauna Banned Banned

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  9. shakushinnen Registered Senior Member

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    Hi Sauna,
    "You assume too much." I'm sorry. I didn't mean to sound condescending."
    "...and yet the whole trip revolves around the words of the one individual." I presume you mean the buddha. I wasn't going to bring it up, but, well that's one of the real problems with buddhism. Truth is, it doesn't revolve around the words of one individual, if it did maybe it would be easier to fathom. Chronologically there was a 300 year spread between the buddha's death and any attempts to make hard copies of his teachings. (I think you can already see the problem.) This means that the records were layed down, not by him, not even by his disciples, but by their descendents, 10, 20, generations removed. Now, I've been assured by the experts that the peoples of that period had much better memories than we, but this is TOO much. No message can be passed on by rote over 300 years, without serious alterations, intentional or not. This is compounded by the fact that, well, people are people, and we all like to put our own spin on it. The upshot of all this is that, in my opinion, NO ONE knows exactly what the buddha said, and it makes me choke when I hear people say that they're quoting him. So what's left. Despite all this, what seems to have survived is a philosophy, path, way of life, whatever you like (I don't call it a religion.) which shows remarkable insight into human nature.
    If you want to discuss specific aspects of buddhism I will do so. But be aware, I do not know everything, and I do not speak for all, probably no, buddhists. But I will try, and I will not bullshit you.
    John
     
  10. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    There is no "Watts version" of Buddhism, and his connection with freaks and hippies is incidental. Not all hippies were Buddhist, and there are still Buddhists and hippies all over, but Buddhism has thrived on the west coast.
     
  11. Sauna Banned Banned

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  12. Sauna Banned Banned

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  13. shakushinnen Registered Senior Member

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    Hi Sauna,
    "in which respect I have been wondering where you get that from." I assume you mean the 300 year gap. Many buddhist texts claim this. I don't really know how accurate it is. The point is that - much of what is called buddhism is interpretation, at best, of what the buddha said. I would guess that Christians have a similar conundrum, although probably not as severe, since Christ lived 500 years closer to us.
    E-Sangha. Yes, I know what you mean. I didn't find that a completely enlightening experience either.
    "I wonder none the less what alternative understanding is to be had of it apart from their usual response, the blaming of the victim."
    I'm not sure what you're referring to??
    Sauna - I think you should understand that I do not subscribe to many of the popularly held conceptions or beliefs ascribed to buddhism. I cannot defend other people's statements. What I have learned, comes from the amalgamation of several sources: reading, observing, practicing, teachers, and other buddhists, always with the emphasis on 'what works for me'. I cannot defend the practices or statements of other buddhists.
    John
     
  14. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    The common denominator between Buddhist sects. The underlying principles and ideas. He didn't invent anything new.
     
  15. Sauna Banned Banned

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  16. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Examples? Different schools of Buddhism do have disputes. His history of Zen is quite balanced and objective.

    This was just something that happened when Eastern Zen practitioners started showing up on the west coast. Watts didn't invent it, he just wrote about it.

    He made no presumptions of being a Zen master, only an amateur historian and enthusiast.

    He would not dispute that abstaining from alcohol is a precept. Following the precepts is a personal choice with varying degrees of success depending on the person. The precepts are not fundamentalist proclamations, but guides to avoiding the factors which tend to prevent spiritual attainment.



    even before trees rocks I was nothing
    when I'm dead nowhere I'll be nothing

    this ink painting of wind blowing through pines
    who hears it?

    sin like a madman until you can't do anything else
    no room for any more

    fuck flattery success money
    all I do is lie back and suck my thumb

    one long pure beautiful road of pain
    and the beauty of death and no pain

    mirror facing mirror
    nowhere else

    passion's red thread is infinite
    like the earth always under me

    a woman is enlightenment when you're with her and the red thread
    of both your passions flare inside you and you see

    your name Mori means forest like the infinite fresh
    green distances of your blindness

    my monk friend has a wierd endearing habit
    he weaves sandals and leaves them secretly by the roadside

    no words sitting alone night in my hut eyes closed hands open
    wisps of an unknown face

    we're lost where the mind can't find us
    utterly lost



    15th Century Zen master Ikkyu
     
  17. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Fame, wealth, eating and
    drinking, sleep and sensual delight --
    Once you’ve leaned the Five Desires
    They become
    Your guide in life

    Notions of what one should do
    Never existed from the start
    Fighting about what’s right, what’s wrong
    That’s the doing of the "I"

    When your study
    Of Buddhism is through
    You find
    You haven’t anything new


    Bankei

    (1622-1693) -- from his "Song of Original Mind"

     
  18. Sauna Banned Banned

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  19. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not really sure what you're getting at. From what I've read of Watts, he is humble and non-judgemental.
     
  20. Sauna Banned Banned

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  21. Light Travelling It's a girl O lord in a flatbed Ford Registered Senior Member

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    I couldn’t agree more…..

    They may read some introductions to Buddhism by Dalai Lama or such like, but never go any further.. these introduction are toned down to be acceptable to a western readership. Reading the sutras themselves is a different matter. It can take a lifetime to come to terms with some of the Buddhist texts... people read one introduction and think they understand it all..
     
  22. Light Travelling It's a girl O lord in a flatbed Ford Registered Senior Member

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    To answer the thread question though;

    Science is the pursuit of knowledge………. Buddhism is also the pursuit of knowledge.


    (Possibly the most important step on the eight fold path is right knowledge.. )



    Therefore……....Buddhism is science.
     

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