Bush...Mexico...jobs...immigration...connect the dots.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Undecided, Jan 7, 2004.

  1. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Joeman:"I am not voting in this election for sure."
    You can't avoid a choice: Each time you pass on your most defining democratic right, your choice still registers. The default movement non-voters support is called tyrrany.

    Voting to break the bipartisan stranglehold on American democracy is far better than defaulting to an influencial antidemocratic "whatever", by not bothering to register and show up at the polls. I'll be voting for the most electable alternative to the Bush cabal, because I am convinced monstrous tolls of lives, life quality, economy, and habitat are at stake in this election.
     
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  3. Undecided Banned Banned

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    I was watching the Lou Dobbs report last night (conservative) and they were discussing the negative aspects of illegal immigration. There are 8 million illegal immigrants suspected in the US (since they aren't documented how do we know?) But anyways, there is 8 million of them. The problem being that they are decreasing the wages of the average american (like so much else), it's obvious. Since the illegals don't have any rights in the US, they get paid shit nothing, and that drives down wages for those who are alredy at the bottom income bracket. I don't support Bush on this intitive because if the US were fighting a "war on terror" then why give amnesty to those who could possibly be a terrorist? I don't think that Mexicans are the problem, but the very priniciple of the immigration department...loses its purpose. There are major downsides to this, I wouldn't want illegals coming into my country of residence either. I think what should happen to please most people, is to have them apply for temporary visas too work, because they are going to come anyways.
     
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  5. Undecided Banned Banned

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    Lou Dobbs today has said that the illegal immigrants have decreased US wages by $200 billion. That could many things, which he don't speifiy what exactly that meant. That wages on the average have been brought down on the average, or that the $200 billion paid to the illegals are taken away from potential wages done by Americans? No link....
     
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  7. Hastein Welcome To Kampuchea Registered Senior Member

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    This move actually keeps companies in America, because without the immigrants, the companies will move offshore.

    However, if a worker gets injured they cannot report it because they are not covered and will probably be fired.
     
  8. Undecided Banned Banned

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    Hastein

    That is true, that companies may want to stay in the US. But the loss of wages will be massive in the US, consider that Americans are actually making less then they were 30 years ago. This will only drive down that wage so that it becomes a determent, basically we are reverting back to the era of the industrial revolution
     
  9. Jagger Registered Senior Member

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    Read about the age of the Robber Barons. I think it is a closer example of what we are experiencing today and for the last 5-10 years.

    The government is for sale. And international corporations have the most money.
     
  10. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

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    Finally some one that gets it!!.

    Joeman hit the nail on the head;

    Ese way es pendejo!! That dood is a dumb ass!!. You think many illegals now are going to register? No they have been runing from "la migra" for years, they see this as a ploy for many reasons!!

    1 keep track were all illegals are and how many of them.
    2 weed out, all that have commited petty crimes, getting stoned! drunk & disorderly etc..
    3 Control of our borders. Which is a good thing I support this!.

    However this is nothing more than a way to boost moral in the Mexican community to support this schmuck for election "I would say re-election but he got appointed!!"

    I live here in Texas, if it wasn't for illegals or mexicans in general, your fruits would be sky high!!, no gringo would pick watermellons at 0.15$ a pice, gringos don't like cleaning johns, gringos don't want to be buss-boys! ok!!. So yea, someone mentioned Texas would be Kapooot it's true esse!!.

    Godless.
     
  11. Undecided Banned Banned

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    Well I was refferring to the fact that the corps. just don't care for their employees. The human rights issue, but your right. TNC have the cards, the US alone has $1.5 trillion invested overseas, with that jobs and wages. But this is what the Cold War was faught for Globalization. Sucks now that you fought for your eventual downfall, hehe.

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  12. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    "The most electable alternative to the Bush cabal" will most likely be a Democrat. Voting for a Democrat will do nothing to eliminate the "bipartisan stranglehold on American democracy".
     
  13. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

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    And that's no lie!!.

    True very little change will occur, the damage has been done, what is sad is that we only have two choices. A conservative nut, who is not conservative! or some socialist liberal, no third alternative.

    Can an independent ever win an election in this courtry?.

    Godless.
     
  14. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Please understand, the Bush cabal is not representative of the "bipartisan stranglehold". They have far more radical and reckless ambitions. At this moment in history, they are the greater threat to the progress and security of the USA, and are acting to further concentrate power. If the Bush cabal is allowed to continue to run the nation on a failing agenda they have never openly presented to the people, they will generate more serious political and economic blowback, and there is down that path a danger of the effective emergence of a defacto 1 party system in America.

    Those who still believe everything is going fine will rightfully vote for the re-election of Bush. Not voting is a defaulting vote for any tyrrany that may come along. Voting for a 3rd party is protest. Voting Dean or Clark, if one becomes the candidate, is an effective vote for reversing course. In life and politics, it is when choices are very hard that it is most important to decide.

    You can register to vote and find your polling place here.
     
  15. spookz Banned Banned

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    levis just closed up shop. seems they cant afford to pay decent wages and remain competitive.

    i rather have cheap labor outside our borders. like undecided mentions, i rather not go back to a pre industrialized state of affairs.

    *invent forcefield...papers please?!
    *punitive sanctions......confiscation of business if violations occur
    *general amnesty.

    ahhh!!!

    *invade mexico and setup shop. save dem poor souls a few thousand miles of trekking, ja?
     
  16. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    It's possible, but not likely to happen any time soon.
     
  17. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    We'll be lowdown enough to maybe do it in 2008. First, we've got a perfectly good country to properly run into the ditch.
     
  18. 15ofthe19 35 year old virgin Registered Senior Member

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    What would you think of the Demo's chances if they had run Zell Miller as the conservative Democrat alternative to Bush in 2004?

    Zell could carry the south imho, and the Anybody But Bush crowd has made it clear that despite all of the current infighting about which candidate they want to see get the nomination, they will ultimately vote for whomever gets the nomination. We'll never know, but it certainly would have made things more interesting.

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  19. Don Hakman Registered Senior Member

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    Bush will suffer for shooting his right wing supporters in the foot on this issue

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    By the way, there is one measure that would both stem the tide of illegals, and recover some of the costs they impose on the taxpayers: hefty fines for their employers. Of course, because of how loudly money talks in our political system, that's precisely the one thing that will never be tried.
     
  20. Undecided Banned Banned

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    But we must not forget that the illegals have given a large portion of the US and Mexico a economic boom. The ones who benefit in the long run is corporate interests no matter what. The US will experiance inevitable wage compeition, just this time within her own borders. I literally would not be surprised if wages in the South per capita (adjusted for inflation) actually goes down. There are 100 million Mexicans...
     
  21. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

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    Yes Undecided..

    But not every single one of them is poor, and not all of them want to come here!.

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    Godless.
     
  22. Actually, in states that allow amendments & laws via propositions (like California), that process can bypass intrenched interests, to levy fines on those that hire undocumented workers.
     
  23. Undecided Banned Banned

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    But not every single one of them is poor, and not all of them want to come here!.


    Oh, I know that. I just wanted to show the US that there are 100 million Mexicans. Sure you have the rich ones, but then you go the very poor ones, which I would estimate to be up to 80 million...that's still a lot of Mexicans.

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