Bush

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Marshall, May 11, 2004.

  1. Marshall Registered Senior Member

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    http://photomatt.net/dropbox/2004/04/bush-large.jpg

    Seen this picture on another board. With the subject "Out of Control" --Basically someone arguing that Bush is "Evil" and a bad president.

    Well, I'm tired of everyone ranting around saying "Bush is evil. The war on Iraq is for oil. --blah blah." A lot of people are really dumb.

    For one thing, most of those images are doubled, tripled, and whatever comes after tripled.

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    Secondly, the fault is not of Bush. But of the people who joined the military. If you don't wanna fight/die/be injured don't sign the papers. It's not like Bush said "Hey you, go catch a grenade!"

    And saying that American Soldiers are dying for no reason and that the War is for oil? What are you talking about? Sure we can get oil while we're there. Why not? But have you forgotten about 9/11 when Al Quieda comitted a mass genocide on American civilians? ..and also saying that they have or they are died/dying is like spitting in their face. Obviously they thought it to be pretty big damn deal to them to enlist in the military and fight for those murdered.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2004
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  3. Stokes Pennwalt Nuke them from orbit. Registered Senior Member

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    Using the deaths of American servicemembers to further a political agenda is so abysmally disgusting that no amount of castigation does it due credit.

    These are the vitriolic demagogues of the American left. I shall now wish for their timely death, as they have far outlived their usefulness and are consuming valuable amounts of gravity. Show me the fuckwit that made that and I might just kill him myself, just to do all of us a favor.

    This is the kind of thing that is BAD for the leftist cause.
     
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  5. Johnny Bravo Registered Senior Member

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    Remember the coffin and 9/11 chaos used in Bush's commercial?
    3000+ Americans dead ..used for a political purpose.
    Those CBS photos/roll call didnt say "I, John Kerry appove of this message."
    Bush's commercial did.
     
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  7. DeeCee Valued Senior Member

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    1,793
    I think the pic's kinda cool.
    He made a big face from lots of little faces!
    The word your looking for is 'quadrupled'

    Guess you must be an American

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    Your gonna have lots of fun here marshall.
    Just you wait and see!
    Dee Cee
     
  8. buffys Registered Loser Registered Senior Member

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    1,624
    come on, give me a break. The left and right do the exact same damn thing, everytime. One side percieves a weakness and then exploites it for what ever thay can get, usually pushing to the point it backfires on them. Then the other side does it. And on, and on, and on.

    Don't try to pull this "look what the evil lefties are doing, how outrageous!" crap. It's a tennis game of back and forth garbage and you know it.

    True, it's not Bush's fault (beyond the fact that he signed off on the war but that's pretty indirect for this prisoner abuse stuff). It is his responsibility though, it comes with the big chair, he's accountable because it happened on his watch. If good stuff happens during a presidents term he usually takes the credit, the trade off is if bad stuff happens he takes the blame.
     
  9. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    I know that I haven't, and I never will. But how has that got anything to do with Iraq? I'm tempted to say that American conservatives have forgotten 9/11 and replaced it with their own masturbatory fantasy that gives them license to justify causeless invasions of whatever nation they please.

    However evoking the deaths of 3000 American Citizens in order to further your own political agenda while eroding civil liberties, and making up fairy tale stories to invade nations we have a personal grudge with is positively commendable?

    Bush sent those men and women to their deaths for no reason. There are no WMD. There is no Al'Queda Link. Oddly enough there is a lot of oil. Stop trying to sugar coat it and just accept the reality of the situation.
     
  10. Cazov I eat plastic Registered Senior Member

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    144
    Oh, he had plenty of reasons. Hell, he may even have thought he was "protecting freedom"...but I'd say his reasons were money

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    Wars aren't started on morality, they're started on economics/strategic forces/resource acquisition positioning (unless you have insane dictators in charge...then they do whatever the hell they want, and in the case of religious fundamentalist zealots, they do start moral wars...). We didn't attack Iraq because Saddam was a "bad man". We attacked Iraq because doing so (and installing a friendly government) provided us with resources/economic advantage/whatever. I think oil was certainly a big factor, though a strategic position in the region where we didn't have to worry about other governments screwing with our plans was probably the deciding factor. Now that we "own" Iraq, we have a little America over there to store troops for further actions against whoever.

    The Iraq war was about gaining a strategic advantage and a foothold in the ME (maybe even so much as getting the foothold to get rid of any sort of dependence on Israel...). Oil, killing Saddam, etc, those were all factors which were used to narrow down the choice of targets

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    But getting to the point of this thread...Bush is an evil, heartless old woman, failing that he's just another guy in power. Everyone always complains about the guy in power, and while Bush is doing an abysmal job at preserving freedom in America, eventually he'll get out of power and the civil liberties that were eroded will be restored (either through the peaceful democratic process or the forceful democratic process).

    However, I do have to agree with the people who posted about Bush using WTC coffins and stuff in his political ads. If you're going to complain about the left doing it, call the right on it too...hypocrisy makes you look like an asshat :/
     
  11. Stokes Pennwalt Nuke them from orbit. Registered Senior Member

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    If you guys could both refrain from putting words in my mouth that would be outstanding. I am neither endorsing nor criticizing any politician. All I am saying is that using the deaths of servicemembers to further a transitory political agenda, as the picture linked to in the first post did, is disgusting and morally reprehensible.
     
  12. Marshall Registered Senior Member

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    Do you know that the oil there is/was already ours? We have resources in Iraq. Just like we have resources in Korea. We're there protecting it.


    "Oddly enough there is a lot of oil."

    Do you mean to say there is a lot of oil in Iraq?
    Or do you mean that we're recieving a lot of oil?
    Either way, prove it.
     
  13. Cazov I eat plastic Registered Senior Member

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    Yea, what's all our oil doing underneath Iraq's sand anyway?
     
  14. Marshall Registered Senior Member

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    Well, my point is that if we were fighting for oil...why the is the gas prices so outrageous?
     
  15. Eluminate Registered Senior Member

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    well you are using deaths of the servicemen for your agenda when you speak of them one way or the other. When your a leftist like yourself stokes you use it for your own agenda. and the right does the same as well but to say just one side does it and look at them is wrong. I personally will vote for Bush he is friendlier. LoL
     
  16. Cazov I eat plastic Registered Senior Member

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    Because people will pay for it. If you had the opportunty to sell 200 cookies for $5 or for $10, and you were guaranteed that all the cookies would be sold within the same time frame...how much would you sell the cookies for? I know I'd sell them for $10, $2000 is much more attractive than $1000. Its the same way with oil companies...fuel is expensive because people will pay for it.

    --

    Friendlier how? Anyone who says "you're either with us or against us" doesn't qualify as friendly in my book...
     
  17. zanket Human Valued Senior Member

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    That’s a good one. I loved this news item too:

    Hmm I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that Daddy was president during the last price record. I also get a kick out of how the refineries a.k.a. Bush Oil blame their ten times increase in profits (we’re talking the amount made on the refining, after the barrel has arrived in the US) on market forces out of their control.
     
  18. StarOfEight A Man of Taste and Decency Registered Senior Member

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    Two things, Marshall -

    There's a basic inconsistency in your argument. One moment, it's "The soldiers chose to enlist. Tough shit." Next, it's "How dare you say they're dying for no reason!"

    Huh?

    Also, 9/11 doesn't really qualify as a genocide. Genocide is the systematic elimination of an ethnic group. While I don't doubt that Al-Qaeda would like to wipe out Americans, 3,000 out of 300 million isn't close to an elimination.
     
  19. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    Because we can't keep the pumps working, and OPEC hates us now, so they're putting the pressure on us.
     
  20. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    Wait, do you mean to imply that Stokes is on the left side of the political spectrum, or that he is left handed? Left handed I can understand, that's not so outrageous, but calling him a leftists would mean you probably failed PolySci101. I'm sure he finds the accusation as amusing as I do.
     
  21. jps Valued Senior Member

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    1,872
    two things:
    First, the linked image is in poor taste, largely because I think it highly unlikely that its creator's got the permission of the families of the people in the pictures, but it is ridiculous to say that using people's deaths to forward a political agenda is wrong. These people died as a direct result of Bush's policies. To say that those opposing Bush and his policy of sending people to their death should refrain from discussing the people who have been sent to their death because it is distasteful is ridiculous.

    Second, One of the most common knee-jerk reactions I encounter from people when discussing the Bush administration's disastrous actions is that I'm "forgetting about 9/11" or "but what about 9/11"? A week after 9/11, I was tabling on the street about opposing the war in Afghanistan and someone stopped to yell that "If you'd seen what happened downtown you wouldn't be saying that"
    The truth of the matter is that I did see the towers fall, not on tv, but from across the hudson river. If I hadn't been running late I'd have been in the station underneath the WTC. Watching them collapse with the knowledge that they were full of people was not a pleasant experience and not something that I will ever forget, and it certainly doesn't make me want to see more such events happen around the world.
     
  22. Undecided Banned Banned

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    4,731
    Well, my point is that if we were fighting for oil...why the is the gas prices so outrageous?

    Market forces, increased consumption worldwide, and not enough production to keep up. Demand is crazy and production is falling short. America is paying a lot for oil because of the war in Iraq as well, it has disrupted that producing nations ability to stabilize itself, and OPEC is scared that a glut of Iraqi oil will drive down prices. So in response OPEC will try to stabilize the prices. Iraq contrary to popular belief is not the only state that has oil. Also most of America's oil comes from Canada, Mexico, Venezuela; Iraq is not as important as any of those three.

    About the soldiers, yes it is disturbing, but I think using live soldiers for politics is just as disgusting. Notice that Bush's little ads show lots of soldiers (almost as if Republican = military). To use the soldier (dead or alive) as a tool has been in use since the inception of democracy itself. I am not shocked, and really neither should you. It's not something unexpected. To blame liberals for that is ignorant, to blame all conservatives for Bush's megalomania is also ignorant. But to be fair, to be honest, we all do it. We all exploit for our own ends, ethical or not.
     
  23. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    Personally I've got no problem at all with the picture. It's artistically and thematically sound. Interoperate it as you will, those men and women died for Bushes plans for the world, whether the "big picture" that they are part of is really worth while or not is really up to you to decide, but there's no point in denying that the blood of the people is the price paid for it.

    Bush is linked to these people now, and I should hope that if Bush sees that picture, then he'll keep it. Reguardless of how things in Iraq turn out, I should hope that Bush never forgets a single one of those faces for as long as he lives.
     

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