Terrorist surveillance is not domestic spying. Pre-911 I would not have supported what I do now. I think anything goes when it comes to protecting us against evil terrorists. The LAST thing I want is another 911.
I dunno. Were the Sudeten Germans advocating the German domination of Czechoslovakia, or committing terrorist activities against the Czechs during the war? Did they belong to or associate with a nation of National Socalists during that period? /sarc Unfounded antagonism, obviously. Great example. /sarc off Further, does jihadwatch compose a political body of any kind? Have they claimed their political perspective was created "not to be dominated, but to dominate"? Is the animus espoused by your quote regarding expulsion a necessary move, or one that could be anticipated in certain circumstances? Are no such circumstances ever possible, even when banlieu residents demand a state-within-a-state and Omar Bakri's adherents demand to know how British officials dare show themselves in "muslim territory" in Britain? Next.
I would say jihad watch is one of the most prolific hate sites today. How many people have Cair converted vs how many people feed off the hate on jihadwatch. There is your answer.
What are they feeding off? The articles from media all over the world that illustrate problems with political (and even social) islam? What are these naughty jihadwatchers going to do? Write a congressman? Which of them have been convicted for terrorism? Of hate crimes? Of assault? Funding intolerance? Is money being channeled their way from Saudi Arabia? The fact of CAIR's declining membership is evidence that all is as it should be - an encouraging thing. CAIR is clearly biased, intolerant and dangerous. Sites like www.jihadwatch.org and www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmitude and www.littlegreenfootballs.com are merely reporting problems in the political and social islamic construct. If there weren't problems, would they exist? Why do you blame the canary in the mine?
People in America are in the habit of classifying people by sect, however. And "subgroup of Sunni Islam" is too clumsy: sect will do just fine. I'm sorry you take it that way. In the US we have the custom of criticising organizations such as CAIR, when they appear to be behaving badly. . If the objectionable political connections, manipulative rhetoric, and dubious behavior of CAIR really does represent the will and aspiration of the American Muslim community, then we have a serious problem, and I'm grateful to you for pointing it out. And in case you haven't caught on yet, seriously labeling people traitors and foes for writing novels you don't like strikes most people in America as batshit crazy - psychiatrically disturbed. Nothing Salman Rushdie ever wrote alienated anyone, or increased anyone's hatred of Islam, nearly as much as the pathological response from the CAIR-led Islamic "community". The bad PR there was all of your own making. What are you talking about? Do you have some kind of canned list of talking points and responses, so that anytime anyone brings up "ritual" you bring up some unrelated Minnesota Congressman ? FYI: no Congressmen are sworn in on any religious text, document, or symbol. Not the Bible, not the Koran, not the Torah, none of them.
Except the 90% who dropped their membership, essentially. There's a couple thousand believers out there still, of course. And islamic supremacism. So long as those rights exceed that of non-muslim Americans, apparently. CAIR, of course, does not really represent much of anyone these days. Well, Saudi Arabia, I guess. And for which you would kill him, though all he did was criticize islam. I think this essentially makes my point for me. I don't think it should be illegal. CAIR's synthesis is the inherent superiority of muslims, rather than their integration into American society, lest it be an islamic society. Since you essentially agree with this goal, I can't see how your recommendations of CAIR help their cause.
The declining membership probably has more to do with the rampant Islamophobia generating fear than anything else. As for Spencer, I refuse to promote his kind.
Or perhaps with the wish to avoid being overtly associated with an islamic supremacist organization. Perhaps you should read the Anti-CAIR website sometime. Well, you seem to have a problem with critics in general, so I'm not attaching too much impetus to your statement. If you spend the time to review his synthesis, you'll see that it isn't about promoting the hate of anything. So again: which boardmembers of JihadWatch have been arrested for supporting terror? Which ones want a Christian theocracy? Which Christian terrorist organizations are they affiliated with? www.jihadwatch.org www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmitude www.littlegreenfootballs.com
Iceaura: quite. It was the exposure to the notion that religious criticism was not permitted in islamic society that caused the damage. Or rather, the recognition of the damaged society.
Which members of the US government have been arrested for Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib? For supporting terrorist groups? For illegal invasions? :yawn:
Sam, this is a simple question: which Christian terrorist groups is Robert Spencer the leader of? Which ones does he support? One might well complain that no one of consequence has been arrested over Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo, but there is at least the semblance of a rumour.
At least he made the hall of shame http://hatewatchhallofshame.blogspot.com/ http://jihadswatch.blogspot.com/2007/05/hughes-and-hugh-dumb-and-dumber.html http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/017237.php
It isn't a mutually exclusive set alternatives, here. It's quite likely that the US is an Islamophobic supporter of terrorism worldwide, and that CAIR is an objectionable promoter of radical and essentially violent Islamic fundamentalism.
Hey guys, let's start this discussion about 911 fresh, because it seems that this topic is very popular. I challenge anyone to prove to me, and the rest of the Sciforum members, the evidence we have that Muslims planned and executed the attacks on September 11th, 2001.
I disagree, you cannot classify Wahhabism (i.e. students of Imam Wahhab, Bin Bazz, etc.) as a different sect. Can you please provide the difference between Wahhabi and Sunni sect if you consider them different? Please don't bring the Saudi regime in this, as they are far from Islam, much less the teachings of Imam Wahhab. I guess defense of Muslim civil liberties is cause enough, since this is a War against Islam. I suppose you agree with sandy that Islam is not a religion of peace as well, and somehow we are trying to conquer America. Please substantiate your claims with proof. I'm simply stating the obvious, Salman Rashidi is a fool and a traitor, he has abandoned his community, therefore the Muslims have abandoned him. He is no intellectual, all his views are pure opinion, which he stated himself. Then please tell me what you were alluding to. Sis, this is correct. The declining membership in CAIR does not have anything to do with the fact they are extremist, but more likely that CAIR has received all of their main support group, educated and wealthy Muslim Americans who want to cooperate with the American government. A substantial majority of Muslims are alienated by the US political system, which they view as corrupt and inadequate. However, even then, CAIR is widely respected in the Muslim American community for furthering the cause of Muslims and defending Muslims' rights. CAIR does not promote any extremist or violent agendas. CAIR is a solely political, nonviolent organization dedicated to work in the American political arena. They aren't a theological or ideological organization. You people obviously are confused about CAIR, please visit their website and get back to us.
Nope. Just an impression I have left over from a few years of running into CAIR press releases (the Rushdie flap has been a genuine eye-opener), watching CAIR representatives weigh in on deals like the taxicab squabbles and the veiled bank customer troubles and the ID photograph issue and the great Praying Imam airport controversy and so forth. And I don't like the Saudi funding. Wahhabis are fundies. Fundies are dangerous, in any religion - Sunni Islam fundies on the same continent as I am on are direct threats to me and mine, in several ways. Self defense. I don't like them, SAM. I'm definitely with you on the US terrorism, the Islamophobia, the hate speech sites and the constant self-righteous blather and jingoism from the US bigots' about their latest fad target but CAIR is not a clean organization. IMHO. That's the kind of talk we in America hear from cults and crazies. If you want to present yourself as a responsible citizen, or even just somebody we can turn our backs on without looking over our shoulders, you'll go easy on the "fool and traiter" BS. The man's a novelist. Nobody is making you read his novels. What is your problem, and can we expect you to get over it without hurting yourself or the neighbors?
I have yet to come across any thing that could be classified as extreme; as for the Rushdie thing, it was a big deal all over the world. India banned the book. And the Wahabis are funding the US as well, if not for the OPEC cartel, the Americans would lose their lifestyle in a day. And they know it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2202781.stm http://www.guardian.co.uk/saudi/story/0,11599,778380,00.html
