Can any metaphysical positions be proven?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by wegs, Aug 26, 2016.

  1. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
    A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed, preferably using a written, pre-defined, protocol of observationsand experiments.[1][2]Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge.[3]

    It is important to note that the definition of a "scientific theory" (often ambiguously contracted to "theory" for the sake of brevity, including in this page) as used in the disciplines of science is significantly different from, and in contrast to, the common vernacularusage of the word "theory". As used in everyday non-scientific speech, "theory" implies that something is an unsubstantiated and speculative guess, conjecture, idea, or, hypothesis;[4] such a usage is the opposite of the word 'theory' in science. These different usages are comparable to the differing, and often opposing, usages of the term "prediction" in science (less ambiguously called a "scientific prediction") versus "prediction" in vernacular speech, denoting a mere hope.
     
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  3. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Okay, until that "theory" changes upon new info. Unlike hard facts.
     
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  5. river Valued Senior Member

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    Theory , hmmmmm.......

    Usually incomplete .
     
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, that's why science and scientific theories remain always open for future modification, addition or rejection as observations are extended and improved.....who knows...Next week we may finally have the extraordinary evidence to show that Alien life does exist.
     
  8. river Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed

    Alien life exists , we just have to ......understand the bigger picture outside the confines of our planet's atmosphere .
     
  9. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    We need to accept nothing other then hard evidence....and sadly as yet, that just aint forthcoming.
     
  10. river Valued Senior Member

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    To you
     
  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    No, to any reasonable free thinking person, that implements simple scientific thinking.

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  12. river Valued Senior Member

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    Many do , just not on your line of thinking .

    Scientific thinking is both complex and simple .

    river

    Pad , if I asked you what is the simplest thing you know , what would it be ?
     
  13. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    river you obviously see yourself as a thinker: You obviously are not.
    The same though you see yourself as a researcher, guess what, you are not again. Them there's just the facts.

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  14. river Valued Senior Member

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    What is the simplest thing you know pad ? think ... its not quantum particles . its bigger than that .

    What powers the Sun ?
     
  15. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Yes and no.
    Theories, at least scientific theories, do have a metaphysical component in some manner, effectively being the fundamental principles upon which science is based: the nature of cause and effect, etc.
    But theories are not theories simply because they have a metaphysical component.
    Paddoboy has detailed the scientific theory, but with regard the layman usage, theory just means something that is unsubstantiated. There need be no metaphysical component within it at all.
    For example, using the layman meaning, I may have a theory that if I drop a feather and a lead weight in a vacuum they will drop at the same rate. Imagine I haven't tested it. Where is the metaphysical component in this theory? It is simply, until tested, unknown. Metaphysical does not mean "unknown".
     
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  16. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    river by now, we all know your games and modus operandi:
    It got you know where last week, and won't get you anywhere this week either.

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  17. river Valued Senior Member

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    Even when I give a great hint you still can't grasp it .

    What powers the Sun pad , what is essential to the Sun's existence , what element ?
     
  18. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    river I'm not playing your childish games....Let me just say before I go, it's not often you're right, but guess what? you're wrong again.

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  19. river Valued Senior Member

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    About what exactly ?
     
  20. wellwisher

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    Although many people can use bio-chemical logic and inference to conclude that life should exist in others places in the universe, the reality of this theory only exists inside of the minds of certain people; internal reality.

    However, there is no direct external sensory data, anyone can offer, to make it objective to the herd. The herd may not be able to think and infer this deep. This is an example of metaphysical. It can appear to be objective at an internal level, to some, but it does not yet formally exist at an external level with objective evidence. If I had a dream, the dream can be fully objective to me, but there is no easy way to transfer this dream to others to make it collectively objective.

    What often happens is this situation is projection can happen. Projection is where an internally accepted conclusion, become unconsciously projective, like a movie overlay onto reality. A projection will then appear to be the smoking gun evidence, that could make it verifiable and objective via our external sensory systems; big foot sightings.

    Some people believe unicorn exists. If you consider genetic mutations, it follows that at least one horse over time, could have developed a bony protrusion; inference via internal reality. However, nobody has found any hard evidence, so the entire herd can call the unicorn claim; objective. Some will believe and may even project a unicorn walking in the deep woods; vision, sort of helping them to externalize the internal; metaphysical, so they can prove it to the group as being objective.

    Prestige is subjective part of the metaphysical equation. If a Nobel prize winning physicist or mathematician says that life beyond the earth is out there, instead of hard proof, their internal objectivity, is extrapolated to objective evidence, based on the pseudo-collective objectivity because of their importance. They could have also been an actor. They are important, but so were pet rocks at one time; internal affect.

    Say someone generated data that the herd does not fully understand. Whether the data is true or not, it may not be easy for the group to be objective. They may depend on internally induced subjectivity; prestige, to tell them accept this as objective.

    Alternately, an inference can be solid and based on subtle proof, but prestige of the status quo, can make this harder to see, so what should be objective is forced to remain metaphysical; water and organics are copartners for creating life. This is an example of external metaphysics; believe in what is false due to prestige.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2016
  21. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    So having had people challenge your understanding of what "metaphysical" means, rather than address the criticisms you raise you continue along with your misconceptions.
    Ah, well. There are only so many times people will point out you are lost before they leave you to your wanderings.
    Incorrect. Again.

    Currently lacking the answer to a theory is not the same as it being metaphysical. All one needs to actually prove the theory correct (that life exists elsewhere in the universe) is to provide a sample of it. That's it.
    You are equating current technical inability to do so with it being metaphysical? Seriously?

    Metaphysical does not mean "unproven", it does not mean "subjective", it does not mean "internal" (rather than external), and does not seem to be anything else you have conjured up and vomitted onto the page.

    If you are going to post can I please suggest 2 things:
    First, get a clue about what it is you're actually drivelling on about;
    Second, don't just ignore responses to your posts / notions / ideas and continue blithely as if they don't exist. Ignoring them is disrespectful to the other person, whether you think them right or not.


    The rest of your post, as I unfortunately expect any further posts of yours on this subject matter, stems from a misconception of what metaphysics is, and is thus ignored.
     
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  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Utter crap....
    Again while life is generally scientifically logically thought to probably exist elsewhere, for many obvious reasons, we do not have any evidence of such as yet.
     
  23. wellwisher

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    The Merriam Webster Definition of Metaphysics is; relating to the transcendent or to a reality beyond what is perceptible to the senses. Or relating to things that are thought to exist, but that cannot be seen.

    Do the math. Life on other planets is currently thought to exist, but it can't be seen. It is not perceptible to the senses for verification. It is the same boat as big foot and unicorns.

    If something is thought or felt to be real, but it is not perceptible to the senses, then where does it exist? It exists inside the person? It exists in the imagination, where sometimes only one person can see. The problem is few scientists know how consciousness works from the inside out. This is why I am patient.
     

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