can plants ever evolve intelligence?? (stupid question)

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by dazzlepecs, Dec 13, 2009.

  1. dazzlepecs Registered Senior Member

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    what is stopping them otherwise?


    is it something with cells not having an "action potential" reflex?
     
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  3. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    What purpose would it serve? Would it allow them to point towards the sun more efficiently? Or to perform photosynthesis better? Intelligence would be useless to a plant.
     
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  5. Blindman Valued Senior Member

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    What a silly question. First define intelligence!!!

    Then, within the various definitions one could reasonable say that plants are already intelligent.

    "I think there for I am.(?)" (I prefer the phrase with the question mark.) consciousness, self awareness, and sentience. Why not, evolution is a powerful force. There is around a billion years of life on Earth left for evolution to explore.

    We humans do not have a monopoly on intelligence, and with arrogant self importance we say that only human intelligence is intelligent.

    Define it first. From Wiki "Another simple and efficient definition is: the ability to apply knowledge in order to perform better in an environment."

    I wonder if anyone has tested this ability in plants?
     
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  7. Hercules Rockefeller Beatings will continue until morale improves. Moderator

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    “Intelligence” is a notoriously ill-defined concept. It can mean whatever you want it to mean. I’m sure we could come up with a definition of “intelligent” that would include plants.


    I’m pretty sure that individual plant cells would be capable of generating action potentials. I don’t see why plant cells wouldn’t have the ability to create polarised membranes by pumping charged ions across their membranes using ion channels (ie. create an action potential).

    What plants can’t do is propagate an action potential between cells from one part of the plant to another. In other words, they don’t have a nervous system. This is what stops plants developing a human-style “intelligence”.
     
  8. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Intelligence is overrated. It cannot be so advantageous or every animal would be intelligent. It takes alot of energy to maintain, and the knowledge gained must be applicable. It takes an animal that isn't specialized, that can adapt to new environments easily.
     
  9. Ahem embrace simplicity Registered Senior Member

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    One summer night I was in my backyard when motion attracted my attention. Morning glory vines had grown to the top of the fence, but they wanted to climb higher. There were eight long tendrils, each 2 - 3 feet long, swirling around in the sky looking for something to latch onto. Is that "smart"?
     
  10. dazzlepecs Registered Senior Member

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    Lets not split hairs, we all know exactly what intelligent means... And perhaps extra competition may elicit adaptions
     
  11. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    Not all of us. I guess I'm just not intelligent enough.
     
  12. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    nope
     
  13. scifes In withdrawal. Valued Senior Member

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    what's that movie where plants start killing off humans because they're destroying the planet?
    the one where they release some toxic which turns off the thing in your brain which stops you from hurting yourself?

    IMO it was pretty scientific based..

    just like when plants are attacked by type A of bad insects, they somehow call type B of good insects to kill the bad ones off..
     
  14. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    It's called The Happening, and it was a horrible movie.
     
  15. dazzlepecs Registered Senior Member

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    Intelligence being things like memory, able to learn etc
     
  16. DRZion Theoretical Experimentalist Valued Senior Member

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    I think that a plant's lack of a nervous system is the main reason it won't ever be 'intelligent'. Dogs, cats, all kinds of animals can problem solve.

    A plant's (or bacteria's) intelligence is purely genetics. A plant will in fact learn where the sun is. There are bacteria that have a natural magnetic compass inside of them; there are bacteria that will migrate inside of a water column at different times of day.

    This kind of intelligence is only applicable if there is genetic memory of a certain stimulus; or in the case of selective pressure, where by random chance a new stimulus activates an old response which coincidentally does the right thing. You won't teach a plant to do calculus, thats for sure.
     
  17. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    Are you talking about short term memory, or long term memory? Are you considering the accuracy of the memory? Are you distinguishing between visual, auditory, tactile, or olifactory memories? Are you placing weight on retrieval times?

    Able to learn what? Motor skills? Language? Facts? Reasoning methodologies? Directional ability? Predator avoidance techniques?

    You have made a statement that is so simple it is wrong - namely you claim 'we all know what intelligence means'. This is not the case and it is abundantly clear that you certainly do not know what intelligence means - you only think you do.
     
  18. dazzlepecs Registered Senior Member

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    Its clear that you definitely are not, I can say that for sure.. Have fun wallowing in semantic mud, the only field you can ever assert dominance in
     
  19. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    there must be some which already do, or do they have some other method of fast action (fast in the sense of animals rather than the normal definition of plants) because how else would a venus fly trap work? or the catapillar hunting fungus?
     
  20. Hercules Rockefeller Beatings will continue until morale improves. Moderator

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    If I recall correctly, rapid plant movements utilise turgor pressure (ie. changes in internal water pressure). Not to be confused with trophism which is growth in response to a stimulus (to or away from the stimulus).
     
  21. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    interesting (i havent studied plants)

    how fast a network could you make with that compared to Ion changes (ie the fast pathway in animals as oposed to the slower endocrine pathways)? could you make a neral network using water pressure rather than nerves (again in the animal sense)?
     
  22. Hercules Rockefeller Beatings will continue until morale improves. Moderator

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    No, I don’t think so. The basic architecture of plants and animals is fundamentally different. Plants have xylem, a system of vessels running throughout the plant that the plant uses to move water.

    Besides, a nervous system can control a large array of different input stimuli and output responses. Turgor pressure can control gross movement, and I think that’s about it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
  23. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Play nice, these are valid questions... :bugeye:
     

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