Discussion in 'Religion' started by Dennis Tate, Mar 7, 2021.
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there seems to be no central dogma
except that all things on earth are creations of the devil
including the church of rome
and so the Albigensian crusade to irradiate the heresy
during which, it is said that a captain asked the bishop in charge
how do we tell the good christians from the heretics
and the bishop responded
kill them all, god will know his own
That's all good and well. Abstinence does not produce offspring and leads to extinction, at least in the physical world.
they grew for 200 years
reproduction seems to have been the norm
(those fucking cathars?)
If in fact they had offspring, it kinda negates the spiritual discipline required at that time.
play on words
cat satan represent !
Hippy cat hair.
Those sure were not termed the "dark ages" without reason!
It would seem to me that if the tradition of Covering Cherub Halel leading a third of the angels of heaven with him.......
and being thrown out of heaven before he could have led the other two thirds.....
indicates that he is an exceptionally good promoter of his ideas?!
Dr. Richard Eby, near-death .com :
Also known as the Albigensian genocide
at least 200k and perhaps a million cathars were slaughtered
(in a very real sense, the church of rome ushered in the dark ages with fire and sword.)
Yes they did......
and for a strange and unusual comparison.....
the Worldwide Church of God began in 1934 with the first issue of The Plain Truth magazine by Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong.....
and by 1986.... the time of Mr. Armstrong's death.......
the doctrines of the WWCG had placed him into a position where he could rival any Pope........
and for the record... I would not trade him as a mentor....
Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong and his son Garner Ted got me researching Evolutionary Theory.... world events and trends....
the Jewish and Christian scriptures and even many aspects of Judaism.
Although I now disagree on his teachings regarding Soul Sleep.....
I still am glad that I got my beginnings in philosophy from the WWCG.
1) Angels, in Christian tradition, have perfect knowledge.
2) Satan is an instrument of God.
Perfect knowledge is generally taken to mean an angel knows everything save the mysterium itself; that is, the mystery of God's grace remains mysterious because they are not God and thus cannot know.
In this context, Satan knew everything he needed to know in order to make his decision; it was the only decision he could make, a result of his context within perfect knowledge.
Satan himself is God's instrument°; in this aspect, he will only repent if it is his role to do so. As an anchor for definitions, Satan's role seems essential; there must, in the schematic describing God's Creation, be someone or something to fulfill the station Satan serves°°. Repentance seems unlikely.
° See, Book of Job, 1.9-12↱. True, there is an alternate reading describing God as a cruel and cowardly master, but that might actually justify Satan; it gets complicated.
°° In a broader, more literary consideration, there are a number of existentially fundamental aspects of Satan, or his station in Abramism, frequently and significantly iterated in their own way among other cultures outside the Abramic experience. Themes of contradiction stand out in the moment, because it is true most do not think of Satan as an instrument of God, but there also remains a question of what most people might think about Satan has to do with which, or even any, record or tradition or story.
Yes.... the ideas about Satan in the Book of Job are troubling......
I heard near death experiencer and Orthodox, (or perhaps Chassidic), Jewish Rabbi Alon Anava comment on the book of Job in which he referred to
ancient traditions that Job......
had given very "wise" but not exactly merciful advice to Pharaoh that played a role in the way in which the children of ten of the twelve tribes of Israel were
treated in Egypt.
Job may have been a grandson of Issachar and in a sense a nephew or grand nephew of the Patriarch Joseph.
In Egypt... the descendants of Ephrayim, the youngest son of Joseph were not slaves.....
but instead were free to leave Egypt at least years if not decades previous to the Exodus led by Moses......
(according to the rather ancient Book of Jasher at least). The Book of Jasher chapter seventy five has a story about
twenty five thousand descendants of Ephrayim leaving Egypt but not taking any food with them....
so they lost a war against the Philistines and were all killed.
The descendants of the other ten tribes of Israel in Egypt were definitely treated as slaves and the specific methods used against them, according to Rabbi Alon Anava, can be traced back to advice given by Job..... that would help to explain why God allowed Satan to test Job so mercilessly.
From an Abrahamic faith point of view, Satan is thought of as perpetually evil. If Satan were willing to repent, the story would change.
All gods are subliminal representations of natural phenomena and common human character traits and foibles.
IMO, this has not in any way changed from the time when the first hominid raised a stick to the "heavens" and cursed the unseen beings that made the light and darkness and when angry threatened his troupe with thunder, fire, and rain.
The list of gods is long....very long and represent almost all of human knowledge and behavior.
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Baronne Rigoley d'Ogny as Aurora, by Jean-Marc Nattier, Baltimore Museum of Art
A basic classification of the types of gods as based on the Motif-Index of Folk-Literature, by Stith Thompson:
A0 Creator (not a god)
A100—A199. The gods in general
A101. Supreme God
A104. The Making of the Gods
A107. Gods of Darkness and Light (darkness thought of as evil and light as good).
A109.1. Triple deity
A116. Triplet gods
A111.1. Mother of the gods
A111.2. Father of the Gods
A117.5. Gods as spirits of the deified dead
A131. Gods with animal features
A132.3. Equine god / goddess
A132.5. Bear god / goddess
A132.9. Cattle god / goddess
A161.2. King of the Gods
A177.1. Gods as Dupe or Tricksters
A192. Death or departure of the gods
A193. Resurrection of gods
A200—A299. Gods of the Upper World
A210. Gods of the Sky
A220. Gods of the Sun
A240. Gods of the Moon
A250. Gods of the Stars
A260. Gods of Light
A270. Gods of the Dawn
A280. Gods of the Weather
A281. Gods of Storms
A282. Gods of the Wind
A284. Gods of Thunder
A287. Gods of Rain
A300—A399. Gods of the Underworld
A310. God of the World of the Dead
A311. Conductor of the Dead
A400—A499. Gods of the Earth (The Human Sphere)
A400. Gods of the Earth
A401. Mother Earth
A405. Gods of Nature
A410. Local Gods
A411. Gods of the Hearth and Household
A415. Gods of Clans or Nations
A420. Gods of Water
A430. Gods of Vegetation
A431. Gods of Fertility
A435. Gods of Trees and Forests
A440. Gods of Animals
A450. Gods of Trades and Professions
A451. Artisan Gods
A452. Gods of Hunting
A454. Gods of Healing
A460. Gods of Abstractions (also Z110. Abstractions personified)
A461. Gods of Wisdom
A463. Gods of Fate
A463.1. the Fates, (goddesses who preside over the fates of men)
A464. Gods of Justice
A465. Gods of the Arts
A472. Gods of Sleep
A473. Gods of Wealth
A475. Gods of Love and Lust
A484. Gods of Oaths
A485. Gods of War
A486. the Furies, (goddesses of vengeance)
A487. Gods of Death
A490. Miscellaneous Gods of the Earth
A491. God of Travellers
A493. Gods of Fire
A500—A599. Demigods and Culture Heroes
A502. Heroes or demigods as fourth race of men.
A510. Origin of the culture hero (demigod).
A515.1.1. Twin culture heroes.
A521. Culture hero as dupe or trickster.
A531. Culture hero (demigod) overcomes monsters.
Other deities by association
Gods of Chaos
Gods of Doorways and Thresholds
Gods of the Night
Gods of wine and beer
What science calls "natural phenomena" , religion calls "gods". It's just a leftover from very old times, when the elders taught the people and of course had no idea about physics.
Sentient Hominids have roamed the earth for 150,000 years, Science has been around for maybe 5,000 years.
Once acclimated to a social structure, human resist change.
If you want to see more naturally occurring human behavioral folklore and spiritual beliefs :
That is certainly what I have been taught in any and all churches.....
but if it is true that new and more clear information will be revealed
in the time just before the beginning of the Millennium or the Era of Moshiach as Jews term it......
and if one part of more clear information is being revealed through what is shown to people who have
brushes with death then......
we are living in a time period where an impressive case for Eventual Universal Salvation can be presented.
"These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father." (John 15:25)
Personally..... the existence of extremely powerful life forms would fit with my idea of
God evolving or learning over infinite time in the past. Some or even many of the
ancient traditions about "gods" could have a basis in a more Theistic Evolutionary Theory.
My guess is that Intelligence first came into existence in fundamental energy.....
assuming M-Theory I would guess that the energy of the eleventh space time dimension would begin to
think and plan and experiment first........
then later on fundamental energy would be formed into a more complex tenth dimensional continuum......
then later into a ninth dimensional continuum.....
later on an eighth dimension teeming with many life forms.....
later on a seventh dimension also teeming with life that on one level are somewhat "experimental"......
later on a sixth dimension teeming with life forms much less complicated than we humans are but with capabilities far beyond ours.....
later on a fifth dimensional space time was invented.... (I suspect as something of a prison environment for spirits who are very selfish and
predatory)..... (actually a lot of really angry and hateful beings may well exist in the energy of the sixth dimension as well)........ or it may be that
fifth and sixth dimensional space - time later on became more and more of a prison environment.......
but perhaps at first those levels of energy / life may have been very different indeed.
I suspect that to a degree... former Covering Cherub Halel who fell and ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil because it was in
Eden that he was in charge of...... I assume that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is somewhat like a program that increases
understanding exponentially but..... also leads to a terrible temptation.
I believe that the anger that former Covering Cherub Halel felt as he was thrown down......
would astonish us..... assuming that he was formed out of perhaps eighth or ninth dimensional energy......
the emotions that he would face would be far greater than the levels of jealousy or anger that we humans go through
To some degree... I do suspect that
Satan is acting in the mind set of the Milgram Experiment and is testing all of us
but perhaps..... if he within himself most admires the people who learn to love others.....
as opposed to becoming predatory and selfish......
This would compare to Stanley Milgram Ph. D. of course being more impressed with the
"Teacher Subjects" who DO NOT zap the "Learner Subject" with dangerously high levels of electrical pulse as they would deliberately
enact giving a wrong answer.......?!
The Milgram Shock Experiment
By Saul McLeod, updated 2017
From my perspective as atheist, I don't see the concept of natural evil intelligence as part of the evolutionary process.There is no evidence that with exception of hominids, predatory animals utilize what may be called evil methods to kill prey for pleasure.
Evil is the exercise of cruelty in a manner profoundly immoral and wicked.
I don't see nature as profoundly immoral and wicked. It functions in an impersonal deterministic mathematical fashion, not with evil or cruel intent.
A natural extinction epoch, there have been 5 is not immoral or wicked, they are a result of climate change or other natural disaster.
We are currently in the midst of what is called the primarily man caused sixth extinction event, the Anthropocene epoch and our biological annihilation. Nothing evil about that. It's man's wanton disregard for natural laws that are causal to an imbalance of climate and common natural resources such as water pollution, etc.
The ozone hole causing ultraviolet damage was caused by man's use of chlorine in refrigerants and aerosols, supposedly angering the gods, but in reality only causing a climatic imbalance harmful especially man.
Ozone depletion is a major environmental problem because it increases the amount of ultraviolet (UV) radiation that reaches Earth's surface, which increases the rate of skin cancer, eye cataracts, and genetic and immune system damage.Feb 12, 2021
Nothing evil about that. "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction".
Good point.... whatever type of program was in The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil
seems to have given mankind.... as well as Satan and the fallen angels and I assume fallen predatory alien races, an ability to come up with genuinely evil
and predatory behaviour patterns.
Near death experiencer Kevin Zadai was shown that Covering Cherub Halel took and ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil before he
began his rebellion against heaven partly in an attempt to get worship for himself.
The clones and partly human hybrids who existed before the time of Noah, according to some ancient books, were all descended from
people who had taken that Tree that I assume gave those and their descendants extra capabilities of freedom of choice even toward genuine evil.
Yes, but all that is metaphorical. Eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge is a metaphor of an evolving brain able to think abstractly. There is no evidence of a tree that imbues intelligence when you eat of its fruit, but there is strong evidence of an evolutionary process that reslted in a larger more complex brain.
I believe the causal event occurred when two chromosomes in an ancestral hominid fused and mutated in a single but much longer chromosome. The proof of this lies in the fact that only humans have 46 chromosomes while all other hominids have 48 chromosomes.
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