Can the particles be split into two?

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by Asexperia, Apr 14, 2019.

  1. Asexperia Valued Senior Member

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    Particles (electrons and quarks) are energy points without spatial dimension. Because of this they can split into two in space when they are forced in an experiment. The splitting property of the particles allows them to behave like waves. Light is a particle that behaves like a wave. The splitting property explains the quantum entanglement and the experiment of the double slit with the electron.
     
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  3. Asexperia Valued Senior Member

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    I correct the title: Can particles can be split into two?

    The double slit experiment.

     
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Rather than saying that particles split into two in the double-slit experiment, I think it's better to say that quantum particles don't really act like point objects under certain circumstances. Quantum objects have both particle-like and wave-like properties, each of which can be more or less prominent in a given experiment.

    To say it another way, in a sense there are no "point particles". Everything has wave-particle duality.
     
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  7. Asexperia Valued Senior Member

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    Then an electron is a particle that travels as a wave?
    That's why it goes through the two slits.
     
  8. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    No. An electron is a quantum thing that sometimes acts similar to a particle and sometimes similar to a wave.

    Describing it as a wave that goes through both slits explains the observations, certainly.
     
  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    A question occurred to me.

    If we could created a recording device with a shutterspeed of 1/186,000 sec. would we be able to record a photon in flight as a particle?

    At SOL, a particle would register as a stationary object, no?
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  10. river

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    Depends on the density of the photon . The amount of light energy it has .
     
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    The registering of the particle in the camera would be no different than the photgraphic plates in the double slit experiment, which physically collapses any wavefunction. Discounting quantum tunneling, a photon hitting a wall
    comes to a dead stop.

    The difference with recording a photon in mid-flight might be that the wave function does not collapse. It would only be an observation and registering of an object in flight?
     
  12. river

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    To your last statement ; could be . And to me I think true .

    You would need many photos , from many different angles
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    About the double slit experiment and the question of splitting a particle or the particle/wave paradox itself;

    David Bohm proposed that the particle is a particle at all times and that the observed wave function is the much larger Pilot Wave which has nothing to do with the particle itself but which enters both slits and causes the interference pattern which guides the particle to a probable position, i.e the interference bands on the plate.

    The result is nearly the same as the standard interpretation, but has the advantage of avoiding the particle/wave paradox. Quantum weirdness may hide an orderly reality after all.
    https://www.newscientist.com/articl...rdness-may-hide-an-orderly-reality-after-all/

    p.s Bohm had the quantum chops to make such a proposal and defend it.
    .....Bohmian Mechanics is no longer hidden in the shadows where was for a long time......

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Broglie–Bohm_theory
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  14. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Just think for a moment: how can you observe a photon without absorbing it?
     
  15. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    'Ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go,
    Cos it's the only f***ing song that we know......

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    11,588
    That occurred to me also.

    But then, if we observe anything are we not absorbing photons from that object. If so what happens to that object?
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    And apparently you only know one song also and that song is known to present paradoxical lyrics. The standard “Copenhagen interpretation”.
    Bohmian mechanics is not woo. The Pilot wave model is gaining renewed recognition. Those are not my words, but words from a reliable science magazine.

    Moreover it works in the double slit experiment, without presenting the paradox. That's worth something. Yet, you instantly dismiss it because you are not familiar with it?

    I am merely the messenger. Don't blame me for the content of the message.

    The message merely says that a wave function is present with or without the presence of photons and that photons ride that wave function by a guiding equation. That proposition does not in any way sound like a f*** song, but very much like a harmonious melody with everything else we know about spacetime.

    I admit my personal lack of in-depth knowledge of quantum mechanincs. But that does not mean I need to blindly accept any argument from authority, just because it has been around for awhile. So has Bohmian mechanics and it has reputable and serious adherents..
    https://www.quantamagazine.org/famo...ve-alternative-to-quantum-weirdness-20181011/

    Question;
    Is an ocean wave "bolted" in certain places to a (rudderless) boat riding the waves? Or is the boat being "guided" by the ocean waves?
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  18. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Nothing, as it was emitting them anyway. Obviously.
     
  19. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    You're such a obsessive bore on this subject. You wrench almost any topic round to it sooner or later.

    OK enough, back on Ignore.
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think this is obvious at all.

    Then why should a"quanta" of energy not be able to emit some of that without destroying the wave function of the quanta itself?
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    11,588
    Pushing a key is easy enough but does not refute anything I posted.

    Now please do explain how a vibrating oil bath as the wave medium for "walking oil drops", is in any way comparable to a probability wave of a photon in transit.

    OTOH, when we use Bohm's theoretical "Universal pilot wave" as the medium in which a photon travels, then we get this statement (as a fricking afterthought?).
    WOW Nellie, the Bohm double slit experiment yields the same result as the Copenhagen interpretation, but without the particle/wave duality?

    Does that excite anyone's curiosity at all? Well of course it does, it is a subject of deep discussion in quantum mechanics, nothwithstanding exchemist's vehement objections.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  22. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    What kind of recording device? A camera, for example, relies either on photons being emitted directly by the object being photographed, or else on photons being reflected from the photographed object (which is, at the micro-level, essentially the same thing).

    How are you going to record the photon in flight? Try to reflect something off it? Like what?

    Huh? When you see any object, your eye is absorbing photons coming from the object, directly or indirectly.
     
  23. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    If we observe something what do you think will happen to that object, evaporate?
     

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