Case: c20 vs Atheists

Neither Lori nor I are interested in politics particulary. We do not understand why you associate us with governmental systems and the economics of the world. You seem to be taking your anger on the world system out on us. We say however "Give to the Government what is the government's i.e. They issue the money in the first place, AND give to God's what is God's i.e. Love Him and love one another."
There truly is a seperation between the two Masters. One is money, the other is Love. You cannot be the servant of both. You will love one and hate the other. Which do you hate?

peace

c20

 

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Incorrect assumptions? Try prejudice and bigotry. Are you a racist too? If you had actually read any of my "rants" you would know that I don't align myself with Neo-Conservatives or anyone for that matter except for Jesus Christ Himself. This is not a political agenda. I speak from the heart...and I could give a rat's ass about politics or what they teach in our schools.

You're clearly the one who's paranoid by your own words and admission, not me. I fear nothing despite the persecution. Bring it on. Do you know what fear breeds? Hate. I can hear it in your words and I can feel it in your sentiment, and if I were to look at you, I'm sure I could see it in your eyes. I feel sorry for you. But if it brings you any relief, let me assure you that in the future, it will not be the majority but the minority that is persecuted. Strange how you align yourself with the majority and yet still feel threatened and unsafe.

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It will be the Christians who will be persecuted. Why? Because fear breeds hate, that's why...so thanks. But like I said, bring it on. You won't see me digging a bunker. Jesus Christ is my protector, my provider, and my saviour. I don't need no stinking bunker. lol.

I'll let you in on something that I hope will bring you some comfort. And that is...that the Bible says that Babylon will be destroyed...the city that rests on seven hills....the whore that rides on the back of the beast, and is drunk on the blood of the saints and covered in jewels and and laden in the profits of her prostitution. What do you think Babylon is dear? Why, it's organized religion. You are being deceived. To fear a threat where there is no threat. All the while, the real predator is creeping up behind you...wearing a mask of peace, and a cloak of seduction, and showing great signs and wonders. I pray that you do not continue to be deceived.

Love,

Lori

 

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Actually, it was a heavily populated area in Mesopotamia. Wouldn't it be a little more pertinent to state the comments regarding Babylon were directed at the place, instead of your fanciful interpretations?

 

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Oh wise and all knowing one, I am referring to Babylon that is referenced in prophecy in the Book of Revelation. This prophecy has yet to be fulfilled, making this Babylon a place of the future, and not of the past.

Love, Lori

 

<Yawn> . . . Please. Lets just cut to the chase. Lori, religions come and go. If humans are still around in another few thousand years, Christianity will be just another footnote in in the long list of religions that have come and gone.

Good luck.

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I like it, I like it gravity.
excellent post.

 

Your cynicism is way old, and cartoons are for kids...trivial. Religions come and go yes, but Jesus Christ lives forever and so will I (thanks to Him).

Love ya,

Lori

 

Anybody who doesn't believe what you believe (2/3rds of humanity) is "wrong" and going to hell . . . in your loving and non-judgemental opinion. We get it.

And anyways, WRONG . . . its SHIVA that lives forever! Sorry, I mean ALLAH . . . errrr, no I meant the INVISIBLE PINK UNICORN. Errr, shoot . . . I'm confused now.

Good luck.

 

Lori_7: Oh wise and all knowing one, I am referring to Babylon that is referenced in prophecy in the Book of Revelation. This prophecy has yet to be fulfilled, making this Babylon a place of the future, and not of the past.
*************
M*W: Dear Lori,

The 'Babylon on the seven hills' referenced in Revelations means Rome, the RCC, the Church of Rome which Paul founded along with Peter whom Paul thought should be the leader of the christian church. However, it was MM who wrote both the Gospel of John and Revelations, the Beloved Disciple, who knew Peter to be a traitor to Jesus' mission. Later Peter conspired with Paul as a turncoat to Jesus' mission. The RCC stands today, but not for long. Christianity is declining worldwide, and interestingly, faster in Europe, and more specifically, Italy, than any other country except for maybe the UK and the continent of Australia.

 

I don't claim to know the future of 2/3 of humanity collectively, or any individual selectively, and my opinion is irrelevant...it's not about my opinion. Yes, you are clearly confused, so keep your luck for yourself. For I know that there is no such thing as luck. Every little thing happens for a reason, and you get exactly what you ask for in this life.

Love, Lori

 

No such thing as luck, and everything happens for a reason? So - back into the freewill problem. An all powerful, omniscient being contradicts having these things happen unless not truly ''loving''. Around and around we go.

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Oh I remember now.. It's the bit with dragons flying through the air and stars crash landing on earth. For a minute there I got it confused with Lord of the Rings. My apologies. :bugeye:

 

You see, this generation will pass away and the next human generation will think of our knowledge, buildings, writings and technical stuff as myths and stories. A great catastrophe will occur, some people will live and they will tell other people about all these. Then their children tell about these things that we had, when it goes on and on, it starts to look more and more like a fairytale. Truly I tell you,

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once there were giants on earth who built the pyramids, controlled weather and energies however they wanted, but now these have become myths and fantasies and you won't believe me. Today these things can only be known through omniscience and old writings such as the Bible and the vedas.

God could show us a great miracle, but after 2000 years it would have been forgotten or thought of as fantasy. It takes something extraordinary for things to last, like Jesus and Moses, they still have their place in history. God doesn't show signs and tricks to us just to make us believe. He respects our free will, but he divided the sea for Moses to lead THE people, because of love. A miracle is just a trick without love.

 

they make the laws to chain us well
the clergy dazzle us with heaven or they damn us into hell
we will not worship the god they serve
the god of greed who feeds the rich while poor man starve

The World turned upside down

Some things never change...
Dee Cee

 

And while I'm in a musical frame of mind.

If the real jesus christ were to stand up today
He’d be gunned down cold by the c.i.a.
and the lights that now burn brightest behind stained glass
Will cast the darkest shadows upon the human heart
But God didn’t build himself that throne
God doesn’t live in Israel or Rome
God belong to the yankee dollar
God doesn’t plant the bombs for hezbollah
God doesn’t even go to church
And God won’t send us down to hell to burn
God will remind us what we already know
That the human race is about to reap what it’s sown


Armageddon days are here (again)

Dee Cee

 

Of course not. One day people might unearth some large skeletal remains, it wouldn't give credence to the latter claims you have made. Myths usually have some truth, but easily gets blown all out of proportion as time goes by. Look at how the stories of Dracula/vampires have 'evolved'.

However, we cannot just make conclusions like you have done without evidence. While making this statement usually causes mass confusion to the christian collective, I hope the same is not true for you.

Well, the OT is based upon older Sumerian stories, that also mention the beings the bible calls 'nephilim'. However, there is still a great difference which is bound to happen to a story after a one and half millennia gap. You have then morphed the story even more, and claimed they built the pyramids and controlled the weather. Myths evolve just like everything else.

Not at all. Beowulf, Gilgamesh, Robin Hood, King Arthur etc.. All these stories have survived, as will Lord of the Rings, Huckleberry Finn etc.

Stories do survive, but it doesn't mean they're true.

As I mentioned to David, you would think god paying a visit to earth would be the most important event in the history of the universe, and yet only a couple of people ever mentioned it. He's walking around curing people, bringing them back from the dead etc, and there is no mention of it other than in the bible. god's visit gets a few chapters in one book and that's it. Even David Koresh got more publicity.

 

1 Peter 2:7-10

7You are followers of the Lord, and that stone is precious to you. But it isn't precious to those who refuse to follow him. They are the builders who tossed aside the stone that turned out to be the most important one of all. 8They disobeyed the message and stumbled and fell over that stone, because they were doomed. 9But you are God's chosen and special people. You are a group of royal priests and a holy nation. God has brought you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Now you must tell all the wonderful things that he has done. The Scriptures say,
10"Once you were nobody.
Now you are God's people.
At one time no one
had pity on you.
Now God has treated you
with kindness.

It is not that it wasn't important, it is the importance you lend it in your own life that matters. The importance you lend it shows where your heart is with God.

peace

c20

 

There is no extra-biblical evidence that Moses existed as a historical person. See the article on The Bible and history.

On the other hand, historical records are so fragmentory that extrabiblical records of Moses may have been long lost. For example, if the Exodus occurred during the end of the Hyksos era in Egypt, as some scholars believe, then those Hyksos records of Moses would have been deliberately destroyed by victorious Egyptians as they drove the Hyksos out of Egypt. The only known historical record that survives mentioning Moses is the Bible.

If Moses is accepted as a historical figure, various aspects of the Biblical tale can be re-interpreted. It is quite likely, for example, that Moses was an Egyptian nobleman or prince influenced by the religion of Aten (see below), since Moses is an Egyptian name meaning "son" and was often used in pharaohs' names. The Hebrews might have fabricated the "bulrushes" story along the lines of the tales of Sargon of Agade (Mesopotamian) or Oedipus (Greek) to legitimize his position. On the other hand, infants were often abandoned by the lower classes in ancient times, and "Moshe" is a Hebrew word.

Dating the Exodus has also proved challenging. Three views include:


it occurred around the end of the Hyksos era, as expressed above;
it occurred about 1420 BCE, since records exist of "Habiru" invasions of Canaan forty years later;
or it occurred during the 13th century BCE, as the pharoah during most of that time, Ramses, is commonly considered the pharoah Moses squabbled with.

Finally, there is the challenge of interpreting the many miracles in the Moses story. Most of them are simply dismissed by scholars as legends, but some can be explained. For example, some of the plagues strongly resemble exaggerated versions of actual pestilences common in the ancient world (see The Ten Plagues), the famous Red Sea crossing may have been a marsh (the "Reed Sea") through which the Egyptian chariots could not penetrate, the manna which God bestowed on the hungry Israelites may have been the secretion of the hammada shrub, and the swallowing of Korah (Numbers 16) could have been an earthquake.
There is also a psychoanalytical interpretation of Moses' life, put forward by Sigmund Freud in his last book, "Moses and Monotheism," in 1937. Freud postulated that Moses was an Egyptian nobleman who adhered to the monotheism of Akhenaton. Freud also believed that Moses was murdered in the wilderness, producing a collective sense of patricidal guilt which has been at the heart of Judaism ever since. "Judaism had been a religion of the father, Christianity became a religion of the son," he wrote.

http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/t/th/the_bible_and_history.html

the bible is a nice read, but it's just that a read, like any book of fables. if you believe it, you must believe all the content there in, which then makes the lead character evil, and the second lead also.

 

Like I have said The Preacher - We that believe the bible know that Moses delivered the Ten Commandments and that as a result all sin was exposed which brought death. Where there is no law, there is no punishment for wrongdoing because the law has not been stated. But where we have law we have punishment from that which upholds the law. Now Jesus did uphold the law but showed that forgiveness and mercy was the fulfillment of the law and that God's grace was life to us whereas His anger was death to us if Grace was not shown. This is why we say "Thanks be to God for the grace of the Lord Jesus" because without the grace of Him, we would all perish as a result of the law coming through Moses.
At the transfiguration Moses and Elijah dissappeared leaving just Jesus.
Moses brought the law of God and Elijah brought dedication to God, Jesus was the fulfillment of both the law and fierce dedication.

The Transfiguration

28About eight days after Jesus said this, he took Peter, John and James with him and went up onto a mountain to pray. 29As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning. 30Two men, Moses and Elijah, 31appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus. They spoke about his departure, which he was about to bring to fulfillment at Jerusalem. 32Peter and his companions were very sleepy, but when they became fully awake, they saw his glory and the two men standing with him. 33As the men were leaving Jesus, Peter said to him, "Master, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters--one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah." (He did not know what he was saying.)
34While he was speaking, a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. 35A voice came from the cloud, saying, "This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him." 36When the voice had spoken, they found that Jesus was alone. The disciples kept this to themselves, and told no one at that time what they had seen.

For those that believe, the bible is the Word of God unto us. It is perfectly logical and plain to read.

peace

c20

 

Do you think I say these things without evidence? No, everyone who searches will find the evidence. Why would I say that these people built the pyramids and could control the weather because they knew the natural laws? These people knew the truth because of their omniscience. I'm not just making it up but I know and remember it.