Case: c20 vs Atheists

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by c20H25N3o, Nov 10, 2004.

  1. Lemming3k Insanity Gone Mad Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,180
    That really is what they all say, perhaps one or two speak truth, who knows.
    How is it close minded to say some people convince themselves god exists? I would have thought close minded would be to either say he must exist based on what these people say and ignore everything else or that he doesnt exist based on the millions that havnt felt anything.
    You dont need to 'fit in', whether you like it or not cultures have religious influence in them, i was influenced from a very young age because im in a christian country and if i desperately wanted to believe i may start to feel or experience things that arnt there, like if i desperately wanted to believe in ghosts the chances of me seeing one are likely to increase and i might happen to see one, but maybe spiritual would be a better word than religious in your case, would you feel better if we used that word?
    Of course, but i think you missed the point, if 500 random people around the world see a comet, but the millions of others dont(and they were all looking of course otherwise there would be a flaw here) does that mean it happened or not?
    Also there is evidence china exists, and you can even go there to prove it yourself if you so wished it, there isnt any evidence that god talks to you other than what you say, and if you speak truth then he clearly doesnt wish to talk to everyone so why persist in convincing us of anything to do with him? Surely whether we believe you or not doesnt matter if you are sure of your own feelings? In short you wont make anyone believe you based on an 'I've felt it and so have others' arguement, because theres nothing more to back it up, especially when millions dont feel it, or feel a different god, your testimony has no more weight than any of these others.
    If gods there, he aint talking to some people, and he's using a different voice with others.
     
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  3. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

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    Lori in my late teens I thought I heard voices, naturally being religious I took these voices to be from agels. I was going through some heavy stress, I blacked out several times, my actions were latter revealed to me by others, I was slowly loosing my wits. I was diagnosed with depression, and a mild form of schizophrenia. This is not unusual, millions of people who hold such a zeal towards religious experiences have these symptoms. Speaking in tongues is one of them, hearing voices, hallusinations.

    I have felt the hand of god touch my face, I've felt satan drag my heart, I've been to the brink of suitside, all from having such a zeal of religious beliefs.

    My life took a turn for the worst, when I had my nervous break down, it did not help that I was a habitual drug user, however the psyhiatrist who diagnosed me said the drugs had little to do with my depression, and my hallusinations. It was more the stress of being the youngest one of the kids, and my trying to impress my strict father, I consider my self the "black sheep" of the family, that and the drugs that brought those emotions to its conclussion, my blacking out, was explained by the doc, as my brain trying to shut down, the emotional overload.

    It took two years, of treatment, prescribed drugs, and counsiling to get over this mental problem.

    Many of the things you describe, that you "feel, see, and sense" were similar to what I experienced, this is why I asked for you to check out the schizophrenia symptons web site, thus I concluded by deducting reason that you may be going through some stages of schizophrenia.

    Godless.
     
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  5. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    Godless: Lori in my late teens I thought I heard voices, naturally being religious I took these voices to be from agels. I was going through some heavy stress, I blacked out several times, my actions were latter revealed to me by others, I was slowly loosing my wits. I was diagnosed with depression, and a mild form of schizophrenia. This is not unusual, millions of people who hold such a zeal towards religious experiences have these symptoms. Speaking in tongues is one of them, hearing voices, hallusinations.

    I have felt the hand of god touch my face, I've felt satan drag my heart, I've been to the brink of suitside, all from having such a zeal of religious beliefs.

    My life took a turn for the worst, when I had my nervous break down, it did not help that I was a habitual drug user, however the psyhiatrist who diagnosed me said the drugs had little to do with my depression, and my hallusinations. It was more the stress of being the youngest one of the kids, and my trying to impress my strict father, I consider my self the "black sheep" of the family, that and the drugs that brought those emotions to its conclussion, my blacking out, was explained by the doc, as my brain trying to shut down, the emotional overload.

    It took two years, of treatment, prescribed drugs, and counsiling to get over this mental problem.

    Many of the things you describe, that you "feel, see, and sense" were similar to what I experienced, this is why I asked for you to check out the schizophrenia symptons web site, thus I concluded by deducting reason that you may be going through some stages of schizophrenia.
    *************
    M*W: Thank you for sharing that, Godless, and you are right. There are two people in my family that have schizophrenia and MPD. They are rampant Jesus freaks. I wouldn't exactly call either of them church going christians. It's truly sad that they are so obsessed with Jesus as their savior, and it's even sadder that their obsession with Jesus interferes with their life. Knowing them as well as I do, it's obvious to me where the problem lies. They tend to be on the loser end of the scale, and they have a lot of self-hate. Of course, they have created the mess their lives are in, and for someone calling themselves 'christian,' they can't just leave it at that and practice their faith quitely and subtlely, they have to cram it down everyone's throat. This is not natural. They are always looking for 'a way out' of their very selves! You can't get a word in edgewise around them. They talk so much, that have to gasp for breath to proceed! I think in both these relatives, they are 'playing tapes' in their heads. They really don't want to hear anyone else speak. They can't handle any conversation that the 'tapes in their heads' cannot reply to. It's truly sad. Both of these relatives are outcasts in the family -- the black sheep, so to say. It's not about their christian beliefs, it's about their obsessions and delusions that they try to inflict on the rest of us. We'd all be happy if they just went to their churches and left us be. They are both Jesus addicts. In fact, they never, never talk about anything but Jesus and how he has saved them! (Although none of us see any improvement in their lives!). Neither one of them use street drugs and both of them should be medicated with antipsychotics, but they're not. They don't think they need medication. They think the rest of the family is crazy and evil, especially me since I stand up to them. Religion breeds addicts just like crack cocaine breeds addicts. Their world exists only in their minds where they are able to retreat from reality.
     
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  7. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

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    You know M*W; there are a lot of websites that cover the relationship between schizophrenia phenomena and religious devotion, many theists suffer from delusion, although the first thing that they claim, is that they are fine, though they explain visions, feelings, hallusinations as if they were realy happening, not knowing that their brain is becoming sick with schizophrenia, and cannot relate to reality with a clear conscious. Every single one of them will be in denial, that they have any symptoms, including Lori here, we will see her atest that what she felt, saw is real, because it happened to her, she will not see that what she saw was part of her hallusination, no one can atest schizophrenia for themselves, it is only when there's a violent reaction, or atempt of suitside, that they get diagnosed, mine was an atempt at suitside.

    Godless.
     
  8. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,346
    Godless: You know M*W; there are a lot of websites that cover the relationship between schizophrenia phenomena and religious devotion, many theists suffer from delusion, although the first thing that they claim, is that they are fine, though they explain visions, feelings, hallusinations as if they were realy happening, not knowing that their brain is becoming sick with schizophrenia, and cannot relate to reality with a clear conscious. Every single one of them will be in denial, that they have any symptoms, including Lori here, we will see her atest that what she felt, saw is real, because it happened to her, she will not see that what she saw was part of her hallusination, no one can atest schizophrenia for themselves, it is only when there's a violent reaction, or atempt of suitside, that they get diagnosed, mine was an atempt at suitside.
    *************
    M*W: Well, Godless, I'm glad that you're still here. I've learned a lot from you. Everything you say is true. I've also noticed that these two family members appear to have had a lifelong "death wish" or severe low-esteem, always getting into one scrape after another. They are not in their right minds. You can imagine how they feel about me! Even when I was a practicing christian, I never had any of the hallucinations that my church friends had! As catholics, they were charismatic, and I used to go to prayer meetings where they'd speak in tongues, interpret tongues, prophesy, the whole shebang. I never learned to speak in tongues although I tried, I never could, and shortly after I joined the prayer group, they asked me to leave because they felt I was not spirit-filled and that I was interfering with their communication with God! I was young, then, and it never occurred to me that I was not spirit-filled! After that experience, I became a traditional practicing catholic.

    I don't know the statistics, but I would make a guess that many of those who contemplate suicide, and those who are successful at it, are christian martyrs.
     
  9. DeeCee Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,793
    I'm thinking about the truth based on the balance of probabilities.
    i.e Lori has a personal relationship with the supreme being or Lori is a little crazy.
    What seems more probable?
    I woke up this morning to find a dent in my car roof. It could be because I was dancing on it last night (don't ask I was kinda drunk) but I prefer to believe that it was raining elephants while I slept.
    What seems more likely to you Lori?

    BTW After 300+ plus posts (many with a hefty word count) I think I'm entitled to an opinion as to your 'state of mind'.

    Ta Ta!
    Dee Cee
     
  10. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

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    4,197
    Holy shiet!! it's raining elephants. LOL..

    It used to rain just cats and dogs, when I was a child.

    G.
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    23,121
    Does anyone else here see the irony of the highlighted text above?
     
  12. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    23,121
    So you going with the elephant rain when you place your claim with your insurance provider?
     
  13. Huwy Secular Humanist Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    890
    Isaiah 16:11

    Wherefore my bowels shall sound like an harp for Moab, and mine inward parts for Kirharesh.
    KJV
     
  14. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,515
    It's not irony, it's fruit. There are two types of spirits that one could "hear"...the Holy Spirit and unholy spirits, or demons. The fruit of the spirit is obvious to the observer. My ex-husband ends up in a psychiatric hospital, can't hold a job, can't get along with anyone..is f'd up on drugs and alcohol all the time and is suicidal and lonely. I'm miraculously cleaned of all of my addictions, happy, healthy, successful and productive, have no problems maintaining relationships at all, and for the first time in my life I want to live cause I really really love life. I am very blessed and grateful and at peace...

    I need to remember that...all that I have to be grateful for. Sometimes my flesh frustrates me...so thanks for the reminder.

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    Love,

    Lori
     

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