CFC's And HCFC's

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by Tristan, Mar 9, 2002.

  1. Gifted World Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    thanks. Quotes are nice, but I'm still looking for a link for these papers and stuff. What would be really helpful is if someone knew where to get the data on volcanic emissions.

    Carbon dioxide levels do not have to be %100 to be toxic, you just have to have enough to make you take in less oxygen than you need. OSHA established a level of 1,000 ppm over an extended period.

    The ocean is a sink. The solubility of CFCs is extremely low, but then you have to consider the VOLUME of the oceans.
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  3. Edufer Tired warrior Registered Senior Member

    I think you have mentioned one of the best referenced book on the ozone issue: "The Holes in the Ozone Scare. The Scientific Evidence That the Sky Isn't Falling", by roger Maduro and Ralph Schauerhmmer, (1992, 21st Century Science Associates, P.O.Box 16285, Washington, D.C. 20041). If not, you can get in touch with them at: <A HREF="">"21st Century Science & Technology"</B></A> for buying the book. It is well and plainly explained, and fully referenced, so you can go from there.

    Or go here for more info: <A HREF=><b>"The Ozone Hole; Facty or Fiction?"</B></A>

    Or try my website (and all the links there) at: <A HREF=""><b>Ecology: Myths and Frauds</B></A>
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  5. peteg999 Registered Member


    All of you have forgotten one little minor source of HCFC. Volcano's!
    Mt. St. Hellen dumped about 10,000 times the total HCFC's produced by mankind in his existence on Earth in about five minutes.
    The big volcano in Hawaii is belching out tuns per minute.
    We already have a much better refrigrant than any of the HCFC's and or the present junk on the market being shoved down you throat by the criminal organization, "EPA!"
    For your units that use R22 there is R290. It is a uni-molecule. It flows easier there fore requiring less energy. It carries the oils more efficiently, there fore your compressor will last longer. It is so efficient that the volume required in the system is lower, hence less work for your compressor.
    The EPA says it is dangerous as it is flamable. That's true, it is flamable.
    So is R234A etc which they "LIE" say is not flaimable.
    R234 will auto ignite at around 600 deg, "not an exact number but close" at atmosferic pressure.
    R290 will auto inginte at atmosfiric pressure around 1000 deg. That's not exact but it is better than the R134A.
    The Air Force did studies with R134A and determined that about six parts per million will cause respiration arrest. The lubrication for R134A is known to cause cancer.
    The lubrication for R290 is Mineral Oil. It's good for your skin.
    You can breath R290 until it is displacing enough Oxygen to cause Hypoxia then you'd better find better conditions. R290 is none polluting. Period!
    It is completely orderless and harmless except in high concentrations where it displaces air enough to cause hypoxia. It is heaver than air.
    Don't smoke around any refrigerant! Don't smoke anyway it is about the most stupid thing you can do anyway. So why kill yourself with those stupid things and risk blowing yourself up in the process?
    Nicotine is an Insecticide!
    If you want to kill yourself there are much less disgusting and painful ways than smoking.
    I use R290 in my house rather than R22. It saves me about 20 percent on my electricity. That's for the whole house not just AC.
    I use a tertiary blend of R290 and R300A for my cars. Gets about 1.5 percent better mileage and cools much better.

    By they for those who don't know.
    R290 is Propane
    R300A is Normal Butane.

    Almost the whole world use both for refrigeration.
    In the United States we don't because the EPA is bought and paid for by Dupont and other big money.
    Australia has banned R234A.
    Look it up.
    Germany uses R290 in manufacture of Refrigerators and Freezers.
    There have been no fires, explosions etc in over 30 years.
    Only the US Citizens are exposed to the fraud and forced by laws to use this dangerous and horribly inefficient crap.
    For those of you who think you can't use R290 and R300A legally, think again.
    The conversion of an R12 system to R134A would be a first replacement.
    That is legal, even though it shouldn't be. A second replacement is governed by law so you can convert from R12 to R134A then to R290/R300A blend.
    Be sure you buy real clean R290 and R300A that has been made for refrigeration purposes.
    Regular fuel propane is too moist.
    Just look on the Internet and buy the stuff already blended.
    There are several companies who do this. I buy 60 lb bottles from a company in Ohio.
    It is named EnviroEze.
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  7. Edufer Tired warrior Registered Senior Member

    Brazil makes millions of refiregators with Freons R-22 and R-12

    Brazil is making millions of refrigerators and freezers using CFCs as R-12 and R-22.

    My present Brazilian refrigerator (Whirpool) has only one compressor (instead of the twin compressor of my last fridge that used 134a) and it cools so much I have to keepi at minimum --and sometimes it almost freezes meat in the upper tray inside the "normal" cubicle. The separate frost-free freezer is always below the -18ÂșC figure.
  8. kmguru Staff Member

    Is not that R290 is Propane? There is no patents to use Propane as a Refrigerant...and it is dirt cheap. So, why the government permit anyone to use it as a Refrigerant? DuPont wont make money and their Lobby group wont make money.

    So, it is against American way of Life....

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