Charlie Hebdo attack, Paris, FR

Discussion in 'World Events' started by GeoffP, Jan 7, 2015.

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  1. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    As soon as I saw the rough headline, it was pretty obvious what happened.

    Not exactly a shocker call there.

    Maybe they were misunderstood loners with mental problems who played football at the local youth centre and never seemed the slightest bit religious or bigoted except when they beat that old Jewish man to death and, why really, who could blame them for that? He was wearing a yarmulke, for fuck's sake, right in the street. Filthy concealers.

    /sarc off (for the reading-disabled; I know some of you are watching. Hello!)
     
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  3. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe in the next edition they can print a cartoon about it.
     
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  5. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    An uncalled-for levity, Kremmen.

    Reports indicate that Stephane Charbonnier ('Charb') and several cartoonists including Georges Wolinski, Bernard Verlhac and Jean Cabut.

    What a dark day. One wonders too at the extremely 'fortunate' timing of the attack: how did they manage to strike just when the editorial board was meeting? Information passed along, perhaps?
     
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  7. dsdsds Valued Senior Member

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    Those cartoonists made a living on "uncalled-for levity". Don't (intentionally) poke the bear.
     
  8. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2015
  9. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    Reports appear to be that 12 are dead at the magazine, and 11 more are wounded, several seriously. The shooters, who were shouting 'God is great!' and 'the Prophet is avenged!' escaped and are still at large.

    This is what happens when the Western ideal of free speech and free expression collide violently with more hard-line Islamic sensibilities. The penalty for blasphemy in Islamic law is death.
     
  10. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    I dare to presume that you wouldn't dare to presume that exculpates their killers.

    Me, I'd never poke the bear. Instead, just bash its head in with a shovel.

    I kid, I kid. Poke the fuck out of it. It needs some serious poking, apparently.
     
  11. dsdsds Valued Senior Member

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    You kid but there actually is lots of poking and bashing going on (with lots of big "shovels"). How is that working out?
     
  12. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    No one expected that they wouldn't be pissed. But we have to do it anyway. What's the alternative? Giving up freedom of expression?
     
  13. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, no. I don't kid. Islamists and/or conservative Islamism needs insulting, as often and as offensively as possible: time to grow up and get with the 21st century. Adapt, integrate, drop the absurd theocratic imperative. The instinct to self-censorship is born of cowardice, and a merely passing association with hard-fought social improvement.

    Perhaps it is time the truly offensive - the murderers, the misogynists, the jihadis - started on their own tour of self-discovery. And by that, I mean not that they should achieve a result making them more reactionary - that being inexcusable, just to be clear - but more human, or humanitarian if you prefer. The alternative, of course, is the denigration of our society into a social organisation more reminiscent of Pakistan.

    And how is that working out?

    Don't carry water for the extremists. Why would you do so?

    Thanks.
     
  14. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    The TV is reporting that the Paris mayor's office is saying that three suspects have been identified by the French security services but haven't yet been apprehended. Two are supposed to be brothers in their 30's, residents of the housing projects in the outskirts of Paris. The third individual is reported to be 18.

    Suggestions are that French security was already aware of them. Law enforcement types providing TV commentary are saying that judging from surveillance and cell-phone videos, two of the suspects appear to have had some kind of training. They handled their weapons (AK-47's) with familiarity, didn't shoot wildly, took up positions so as to cover each other, grouped their shots and remained cool. They seem to have planned their attack well, knew the building's layout, may have known their targets' schedule, and they had an escape plan. It will be interesting to find out if they are jihadist fighters returned from Syria or someplace.

    Subsequent edit: There's reportedly a big French SWAT operation underway in Reims, about 80 miles northeast of Paris, that may or may not be related.

    Subsequent edit #2: France24 is reporting that the events currently unfolding in Reims are being conducted by special anti-terrorist police. Snipers have taken up covering positions and a number of apartment buildings have been entered. It isn't clear whether the terrorists themselves are believed to be there, or whether this is part of a broader operation intended to round up their known associates.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2015
  15. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    I'm more concerned with where they were radicalised.

    Pardon my cynicism, but I'm sure it will be someplace that doesn't host radical speakers - not never! - and where they were known strictly for playing football and being nice, normal, everyday, average, unremarkable, typical, happy-go-lucky, moderate, non-radical, average, typical, football-playing, cheerful, moderate, average, non-radical, moderate boys. You know: like at Finsbury. Perhaps this is just some childish lark! We've all been there, surely.

    Again: /sarc off. For the impaired.
     
  16. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    I for one am happy these brave young men are saving all of us from God's wrath. We could be up to our necks in locusts with all these evil cartoonists around.
     
  17. Bells Staff Member

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    As news of this atrocity broke here late last night (our time), Canberra political cartoonist, David Pope, sketched and then posted this on twitter as he watched the news and waited to see if those he knew had survived.

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    In bad taste, certainly, but Charlie Hebdo thrived on bad taste and making fun of some of the most stupid things in society, be it religious extremists, Catholics, Jews and Muslims, to politics, to life in general (please note not all are suitable for viewing by minors). I suspect they would have approved. Well played Mr Pope.

    We would often receive these in the mail, sent to my mother by her brother and other family members who live in France. It saddens me that this may be the end of the brilliance that would often result in hearing my mother's peals of laughter down the phone when these would arrive. They were cherished by my parents, and myself, now even more so.. We all have our favourites. This one is mine, reprinted and proudly so, because this.. Well.. I have no words.


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  18. Bells Staff Member

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    As news starts to trickle in that they may have caught or found the killers, the names of some of the victims are starting to be released..


    Stéphane Charbonnier, also known as Charb, was the publisher of Charlie Hebdo.

    Ahmed Merabet, a police officer who was the first to arrive on the scene. He was the police officer that was filmed as he was gunned down in the street, just before the two gun men ran back up to him and shot him point blank in the head as he lay on the ground.

    Jean Cabut, aged 76, also known as Cabu, was the cartoonist who drew the first Mohammed cartoons which drew the first threats to Charlie Hebdo. He was mostly known for the Beaufs. Caricatures of what he saw as the worst of French society, those who complained, the racists..

    George Wolinski, 80.. One of the founders of the paper.

    Born in Tunisia in 1934 to a Polish father murdered when he was just two years old, and to an Italian mother from Tuscany, Georgie, as he was called by his grandmother, discovered comic books from US soldiers deployed to North Africa.

    Arriving in Paris at the end of World War II, he started illustrating his high school newspaper and then moved on in 1961 to a publication called Hara Kiri. When that paper was ordered closed by officials, he moved on with its staff to start Charlie Hebdo.

    Bernard Verlhac, aged 57, a cartoonist since the 80's. Not just at Charlie Hebdo, but for other publications in France.

    Bernard Maris, an economist who also moonlighted as a columnist at Charlie Hebdo. Known as Oncle Bernard at the publication, he was mostly known for his work as an economist.
     
  19. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    Reports have appeared in the French media that gunfire has broken out and that one of the Paris terrorists is dead and that the other two are in custody. None of this has been officially confirmed and may or may not be true.
     
  20. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    If true, this would underscore the issues about theocratic hatred, as if we did not really know what it was. Or should one just call it religious hatred? In another land, the latter, certainly. One then asks where the line is to be drawn at the public plea of insanity: is everyone who goes on jihad against civilians still just deranged? If these views are widely shared, tacitly, or overtly, why, our mental institutions would be in fear of being swamped in admissions or by the demand for testing.
     
  21. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    Reports are that the 18 year old has turned himself in. Some of his classmates say that he was in class at the time of yesterday's shootings. If that's true, maybe he's innocent. Or maybe he was involved some other way, helping the two shooters plan or gathering information for them beforehand. I'm sure the French police are going over that very carefully.

    TV is saying that nine associates of the suspected shooters are in custody. I don't know if it's for questioning or for something more tangible.

    Apparently the reports 12 hours ago of the shooters being apprehended in Reims were false, but they may indeed have been there a short time earlier. A gas station appears to have been robbed by the shooters and now it looks like there's lots of police activity as we speak about 20 km east of Reims with anti-terrorist police in black body armor with assault rifles swarming the area. Local reporters on the scene of hastily thrown up police roadblocks.

    And another piece of disturbing news: In a separate incident probably inspired by the events yesterday, a motorcyclist dressed all in black rode by and shot and killed a French police officer in the southern outskirts of Paris today.
     
  22. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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  23. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, I believe that's the same incident.

    The fact that this shooter also had an AK might be significant. The magazine shooters had AKs too and seemed very familiar with them. My understanding is that AKs are difficult to obtain in France. So where are these weapons coming from? Who is distributing them? And where are the shooters practicing with them? Those are things that the French police need to be investigating (and I'm sure they are).
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2015
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