I am very aware that there is so much 'more' than the senses are capable of perceiving. That is where I live! You make incorrect assumptions... I have heard of Qi all my life. I have been a martial artist for many decades. I am 'denying' nothing. Until you offer 'evidence' that Chi is anything 'other' than .. Mind, for instance, you are simply noting a phenomenon and attributing it to this invisible 'stuff'. Like the deists. That seems, to me, rather arbitrary. On the other hand, Chi and Mind might simply be two perspectives of the same thing. Whats with all the emotional responce here???? Methinks thou protesteth overmuch! I have been known to say foolish things before, and, no doubt, will again. Foolishness, like wisdom, is in the ear of the hearer. Again you make spurious assumptions about me (where did 'I' personally come into this? Sheesh.. Does it always have to become 'personal'?) I have been a student and practitioner of the 'wisdom of the east' all my life. I have managed to escape the cognitive fallacy traps, not simply 'believing' due to the repetitious nature of the 'stories' and the 'elements'. Much of the beautiful stories, after critical thought, seemed to be better viewed as 'beautiful metaphor' with many levels of understanding possible. Thanx for the time.
yeah man i agree with what you said about taking certain things as beautiful metaphores i do the same myself, i dont take everything to litterally, again im not trying to make it personal sorry if i came off that way atall, but seriously Qi and the other energies ie jing, shen, yi, i can see where your going with it just bieng a notion of the mind and the effects are caused by ones intent and mind state etc, but theres just more to Qi than in the mind, the shaolin monks and Qi gong practitioners are a perfect example of this, i have studied shaolin gung fu and other martial arts since i was about 4 years old, and i dunno how to explain this but errm, Qi dosent seem so mystical and "out there" to me its just Qi like oxygen is oxygen or a tree is a tree, Qi is just another energy form that exists within us all, and western modern proof of Qi has been shown with freud;s apprentis or whatever he was, with the orgone accumilator ok before anyone talks further on Qi lets all discuss the works of freuds student and why his works got scraped? and why no1 can explain it but everyone is quick to dismiss this actual "evidence" of another energy effecting a living thing. i would like to hear people dismiss his works with the orgone energy, does anyone remember people dismissing other forces back in time? and thent hey are later proven, hey nearly every ancient civilisation recconised Qi and they had no communication with each other, the native americans, the indians, the japanese, the chinese, the mongolians, the tibetans, the thai people, the korean, and im sure many other cultures spoke of this "energy" form aswell, come on western people should look further into chi, but your western thinking tells you to dismiss anything that seems like magic or witchcraft, western science is quick to dismiss eastern thinking, but the day something has scientific proof for everyone to see, then its all back pedal back pedal back pedal, im not knocking science atall im just saying there is evidence of sorts in peoples faces wich tot his day goes unexplained, dosent it deserve a closer look? peace
Well I agree, it is all just one thing happening here. Yeah a real western scientist, who ironically came up with the same notions Chinese and Indian philosophers did thousands of years ago. Don't you kind of find it ironic that Reich found a pre-atomic life energy which he called Orgone and that almost all of his observations of Orgone are also true about the Chinese Qi and Indian Prana? Could they be talking about the same energy? I don't know what Freud said, but Einstein disagreed with him. He said the rise in temperature was due to heat convection, though he provided NO experimental data to back his claim up. Like I said in the beginning, almost NO modern physicists agrees with him. This due mainly to all of Reich's information and books being held until the year 2007 (in his will). Still in the books that are available ALL of Reich's experiments give similar results to what Reich describes. Japanese concepts differ greatly from Chinese concepts. For instance "Ki" and "Qi" are not the same. Ki has more to do with the spirit, where as Qi is just life energy. I don't know what Freud said, please tell me. No it doesn't threaten my belief at all. People already know that Qi exist, there is no question about this. I agree that criticial thought is indeed driven to justify one's belief. But you know what? In QM Classical energy like kinetic, magnetism, electricity, etc...technically DON'T EXIST, they are just descriptions given by physicists (that's what Classical Physics is). One might say there is a force of magnetism when it is just the subatomic particles interacting - no new force, no separate energy. In the same way, Qi does and does not exist.
Perhaps my hang up here is that in my understanding/experience, all that we perceive, all that we can conceive, every notion, everything about self and other and community and matter and energy and universe exist solely in 'Mind'. We can never actually know if there is ever really anything actually in front of one's nose. All we can know is what is within Mind. All the awesome power of the universe, of every sun, every manifestation of energy, everything... is within Mind. A 'holo-dream'. So, when I 'equate' Qi with mind, I am NOT dismissing it, nor am I belittling it. Mastering Chi could well be mastering Mind and thusly is Everything Mastered. 'Things', 'assertions', 'hypotheses', 'notions'... are generally dismissed in the scientific community if there can be found no evidence in support of 'something's existence' in the first place. If evidence is found to support 'something', then hypotheses are formed, and the fine dance of (attempted) destruction of said hypotheses is performed. If one cannot reasonably demolish either part or all of the hypothesis, then it is temporarily tenuously accepted. Science is limited to the 'natural' world. Perhaps chi and orgone are 'supernatural'?? But the 'dismissal' is almost certainly due to lack of 'evidence' or phenomena not already 'explained' more simply or efficiently. Though I try to never 'dismiss' anything just out of hand due to the multitudinous times that I have been incorrect in doing so. I am 100% sure of nothing. (Well, perhaps 99.98332..% sure that I'm 100% sure of nothing..) Nothing! So, there is always a statistical probability of the 'existence' of 'anything', including flying pink elephants. Well, if all is truly within Mind, and there is ultimately only 'One', then it is reasonable that similar 'constructs' and 'notions', 'mythologies', are found in (apparently) diverse places and times, as there is really no one that has absolutely no 'communication' with EVERYONE else who ever lived or will live or is living anywhere! (We all just have slightly varying 'perspectives', some 'slighter' some less 'slight'! *__-)
To his 'special' student Wilhelm Reich, upon being informed of Reich's hypothesis of 'orgone', Freud was overheard to say, "Villie, you zound like ze schmuck, now zhut up und get me another cup of coffee und a zeegar! Vait 'till Albert hears ziz von! Hahahahaha..." No, I don't think that communication shall be achieved this time around... Which people? You imply all? Is it the "people" who 'already know that Qi exists' that have 'no question'? Or, perhaps, there is 'no question' that 'people already know that Qi exists'? I think you are speaking for yourself, so... Since you admit to having "no question" about Qi, you brand yourself a 'zealot', a 'fanatic', a 'true believer'... with whom, experience has demonstrated to me, it is almost impossible to maintain an intelligent, civil, respectful conversation. So, with respect, I'm afraid that I must 'duck' this one, here, with you. Perhaps under different circumstances... My apologies.
nameless, I'm not a fanatic, it's just obvious that Qi exists. I mean, it exist just as much as magnetism or kinetic energy (which are just different descriptions of the one energy). That's like saying that if you think there is a such thing as magnetism are you a fanatic. People with new radical theories are always laughed at throughout history for their new ideas. It's no surprise Freud did the same. Can you explain why Wilhelm Reich's observations about Orgone almost always match what the Chinese say about Qi? For instance, both Reich and the Chinese say that this energy is life energy and present in all living things, an imbalance in the energy causes sickness, and the most remarkable is that Reich observed that water has the strongest orgone, ironically the Chinese say that water has very strong Qi. Is this just a coincidence? Perhaps they were observing the same energy. Also, why do all of the experiments Reich mentions in his book work? Why did the FDA and the court silence Reich without providing any evidence that orgone didn't exist, and without allowing Reich to prove that orgone does exist?
qi energy is finally starting to get good recognition in the west, this is a very good thing i really do hope that western science acknowledges its benifits and powers, because i believe if you combine the science and tech of the west, with the ancient healing and energy strenthening of the east, we could form a really good balence and maybe cure some of the things that niether can cure on its own, does anybody think a fusion of eastern and western healing could benifit our society? and about qi existing could everyone who hasnt practised any qi gong or taiji/bagua, please actually try it, im not trying to preach but it really does help in nearly every aspect of your life, give it a try please and just judge it after you give it a good shot?.
The Western Technology (like orgone generators, and things like that) combined with Eastern practice, exercise, and wisdom would probably allow every known disease to be cured. But why would the FDA want this? Their corporation would crumble, they would lose billions. And if the FDA loses billions, the American economy would fall. It seems like something neither the government nor the FDA would want to happen. And I agree, even if you don't believe in Qi at all (no belief is required), Qigong/Taiji/Bagua or any other internal art truly does help you.
My friends, I am denying nothing. All I am saying is, basically, what the fuk do I know? Nothing! I find what 'works' and I use it. When it no longer works, I replace it with what does. The 'how' and 'what' is all speculation and hypothesis and arguement. All I 'know' is what works. Evidence. I can make things 'happen', more or less. The 'how' is again, hypothesis. I am a magician in a universe of Magic. My universe. My rules, my 'game'. I 'play'. YOU go figure out how it works! What difference does it make what I 'believe'? I 'believe' nothing. I have no 'beliefs'. I don't know why, but when I share this truth about me there are many who want to argue with me, who call me a liar. Why? I am not saying that Chi does not exist. I am simply saying that I may know 'it' by a different name, perhaps a different 'face'. I have learned the 'internal arts'. They are all 'internal'. Arts of the Mind. They are all tools in my belt for accomplishing my 'Will'. There is no 'how' as far as I am concerned. 'That' they work is sufficient. The 'how' is all mental masturbation. What else? What else? And VitalOne, all I can say is 'time will tell'. I can tell you the articles that you will be reading in twenty years in the science magazines, but you will have to see for yourself. It is absolute surety that makes one a 'fanatic'. I bid you good fortune and Truth. Peace...
agreed about the FDA and government losing out, shame that greed stands in the way of progress but this wont stop small organisations trying this type of healing, we will get there in the end without government help, and about qi, it dosent have to be called qi prana or anything else its just there no matter the name or face you associate with it, you dont have to believe its there but to truely master its abilitys then you would have to believe it to control it and direct it properly, but i agree with what you said, peace
http://www.wofs.com/fsw.php?load=ar...&c=feng_shui_uk http://www.matzkefamily.net/doug/papers/tucson2b.html http://www.miqel.com/adepti/study-s...tal-energy.html http://www.meaningoflife.i12.com/qi.htm
One dead link. One 'down' link. One copy of a 'Feng shui' magazine. Hang a plastic Buddha in the north window stuff... And an interesting paper that says; "The understanding that thoughts can direct and effect the flow of Chi, suggests that Chi, the mind, and consciousness are all intimately related. The understanding of this author is[2], if the mind is a non-local information field (rather than an energy field) then understanding more about Chi will lead us to better understanding about mind/consciousness, improved awareness, and improved health." Have you read the whole paper that you linked to, EmptyForceOfChi? Do you agree with what it says? If the above excerpt is to your understanding as well as the author's, I'll comment. My understanding of 'Reality' includes "'Mind'/'Chaos'/'Bindu'/the 'Void'/the 'quonton soup' *__-/..." and if you are saying that your Qi is 'that', than I can reconcile your 'qi' into my (understanding of) 'Reality'. In that case, mastering qi is the same as mastering Mind; and mastering Mind is the mastery of chi. Are we on the same page here? The above excerpt is all I shall refer to at the moment as I saw much of the paper descend into the world of... feng shui... and 'homeopathetic nonsense'. For instance, he talks of the one and only russian dr to develop a Qi generator (without the use of crystals I assume). Well, if Qi = Mind (consisting of the 'quonton soup') then his little 'toy' must be quite remarkable indeed!!! Perhaps I have missed the issues of Scientific American, Discover, Science, OH! Wait <he added sarcastically> Feng Shui Today Magazine had something?? I would think that Nobel Prizes would be in order... So, that is why I'll just speak to the above quoted excerpt, because it made sense to me. The first description that does. One can possibly heal or kill with Mind, etc.. OK, so.. What do you think?
Qi != mind. The Indian scriptures state that Prana and Citta (consciousness) are like twins, good citta causes good prana, and good prana causes good citta. Also, you are thinking about the physical mind. Also, what is so shocking about a device like that? From personal experience, I know Qi exists as something separate from the brain/mind, it behaves wave-like, yet it is greatly influenced by our thoughts,I'm still puzzled as to what it actually is. It obviously affects the physical world, but is mass-free and pre-atomic, the observer influences it greatly, it seems as if Qi is actually the energy of Yi, the energy of the observer, the energy of consciousness pervading the entire universe.
I am tentatively equating Mind with QM's 'field of possibility/probability waves', the 'undifferentiated potential', the field of Chaos from which we pluck the 'stuff' of omniverse. If one can deliberately manipulate those 'waves', the results are similar enough to account for (most of) the claims of the Chi practitioner regarding arriving at the 'moment of desired results'.. Your 'scriptures' seem to support this hypothesis of mine. No I am not. I have no experience of a 'physical mind'. Nor is one possible, I'd posit, according to my definition of Mind. Nothing is 'shocking' to me anymore. But a 'physical gizmo' that pumps out those 'quantum information waves' would be rather WORLD SHAKING NEWS to the scientific community, headline material in major papers and magazines. Perhaps this all happened while my family and I were busy 'raising' each other? If there is real research out there please point me toward it? Otherwise, the conversation will not suffer, IMHO, from deleting the 'Chi generator' from the table. Left bleeding on the floor, slashed by the 'famous razor'! With all due respect, one can NEVER know if anything 'exists' seperate from 'mind'. Sure, if Mind = quantum posibility wave field then it stands to reason that it might have some 'wave-like' characteristics. I guess that Mind can be influenced, but I'm not sure that simple 'thoughts' have enough 'energy' to really influence anything at that level. This is the level of Consciousness, of Intent, of Volition. 'Thoughts' are like 'wishes', shallow, weak and ineffective at effecting change in and of themselves. Put a body behind one, though, and there is a certain 'context' of effectiveness. So is everyone else. No one knows. Perhaps it is what I have suggested. Perhaps not. If it does exist, my hypothesis can reasonably, and satisfying Occam's famous razor, accommodate Chi as 'Mind'. Mind. I think you might have hit a 'home-run' here. Mind, being the 'energy' (I'm not sure that I like the term 'energy' as used here, but for the moment, I'll let it be..) of Consciousness, WITHIN WHICH resides the 'omniversal hologram' of which Consciousness is... Conscious! Manipulating chi might be merely a 'directing of Conscious Awareness' to the 'moment of the desired result', 'existing' simultaneously with every other 'moment'. A 'moment' being the particular 'reality' of the collapsed 'info. wave', propagating in a fractal manner into all possible 'realities'. By manipulating the chi, you are not manipulating the 'moments', all 'moments' already exist, you are manipulating Conscious Awareness toward the 'moment of the desired results' (of the chi manipulation). When that happens, it is reasonable to 'feel' that you have actually 'done' something, as that is the perception... and Ego begat 'life'...
People are so funny. "I have no need for it". You got it whether you need it or not. If you say "I have no need for an appendix", you still have an appendix. It doesn't care what your brain has decided to believe in.
well being the founder of creation i beleave chi has alot to do with 9 either sence its detectable by heat sensors and as u know us blacks was made from every gas there possably is in the universe and chinise ppl have 7 either so i think there using there iner soul to create phisical energy...there for there basicly using the same thing that helps ppl levitate ect...un like magic theres no smoke and mirrors white ppl cant understand the consept because there the newest and basicly have little to work with other then there brain...and no im not rascist its a fact that there the closest humans get to animals and us being the first on earth where-where it started at the people of the sun...
either is the only gas that can become fire,liquid,solid,and back to a gas so that may be the reason you body can become hard as steel when u master chi
WTF is 9 either sence? Please do elaborate on this rubbish. and this Yeah? Define souls and describe how they create energy Gullibility is the only thing that helps people levitate As opposed to those that have no brain to work with?
