China's crazy projects

Discussion in 'Architecture & Engineering' started by birch, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. birch Valued Senior Member


    they built a rail in less than 9 hours with 1500 workers. though sometimes speed sacrifices quality control but not always if it's done right by the right preparation and system.

    literally, they built it overnight in one shift.

    i am amazed at their efficiency and cooperation.

    where i am, it will be ten years before a simple monorail will be finished completely.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
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  3. birch Valued Senior Member

    i was looking at some of these comments and it all makes sense why in the west that especially east asians (china, korea, japan) are the most mocked by whites (obvious) and other minorities whose countries they came from are still major shitholes. as a matter of fact, they all gang up together because they love to put down asians. nevermind, these pc liars here who pretend that hasn't generally been the case because it has. coincidence?

    so, even though asians are pummeled with denigrating stereotypes left and right in the west even in the face of glaring hypocrisy (consider the source and who the fuk are you logic). out of all minorities, east asians are pummeled with stereotypes about their appearance, physique, sexuality, government, food, etc suspiciously moreso than any other minorities or cultures. hmm?

    one of the biggest resentments/complaints is they steal technology. that's petty sour grapes which doesn't want to see others better themselves. you can't steal technology really as it's more abstract because it doesn't stop another from utilizing the same technology as well as it's not a limited or finite commodity. it's like saying someone stole math from the one who invented it. that's a stupid whine.

    it's not the same as someone raiding your country, burning or destroying your town, killing and raping your family and stealing your finite resources as well as damaging whatever they can. if they did that and utilized the technology that came from your land to set you back, then it would be grounds for resentment and bitterness. but not all resentment is legitimate. otherwise, people should be happy to see others utilize knowledge to better themselves and their countries and that's all that asia is trying to do.

    east asians can just have a big grin on their face as asia rises and the west is deteriorating even though they grew up in a country that accepts them the least but at least they get to bully asians with petty/hateful racism in the meantime to soothe their ego.

    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
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  5. Facial Valued Senior Member

    I would suppose that it's the cultural training of the people and their Confucian values, rather than about race per se. They simply decided to adopt a very efficient way of thinking early in their history. The neat hierarchical system from that (and maybe their party-government structure) places a check on unfettered and chaotic competition. So it's all harnessed for productive advantage.

    In the US, I can definitely feel the resentment and the pettiness that occasionally goes on between people from different backgrounds. As an ABC I felt my fair share of discrimination. A lot of it is subtle and comes from an older generation who don't think twice about it. On their part it's probably unintentional. Then there's the occasional drunkard who spouts uninhibited free thoughts and I am much less content. The fact that China is a powerful country and soon to resume the helm of the leading economy on the planet - possibly the universe - is soothing, but that fact doesn't benefit me personally. What does benefit me is the fact that the vast majority of my European-American friends treat me with respect and I regard them almost like brothers. Some people work just unbelievably hard and they put me to shame. But there's just something about the culture, the system of laws, and political rights in this country that creates too much friction for faster collective progress. There's always some form of legal gridlock: a technicality here, and a lawsuit there. The only unfettered development seems to occur in the military, which is unaudited and has carte blanche to spend taxpayer dollars however they please. I fear the demise of American power by hypocrisy; what we say is not what we actually do around the world.
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  7. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    next us law suit in waiting ...
    logic & your sense of cause and effect has no real bearing on a mind that defines a loss to the Ego which is used as transference to validate xenophobia as a natural cultural state.

    but anywho...

    you may wish to start a thread in human science about "normalized racial stereo typing & the xenophobic self apologist"

    i think you are swerving way off the tracks here.
    i dont think a market gardener who direct sells to big city customers in Tokyo or Beijing would like to be classed as the same asians whom are burning down all the native forrests.

    the majority of your content is probably more aligned with human behaviour or free thoughts.
    it seems to be about xenophobia and cultural bigotry issues & racism & subconscious racism and concepts of economically driven racial segragationalism idiation.

    what is your thoughts on china dumping massive amounts of sand on the south china sea corral reefs and wiping out millions of fish from the breeding cycle ?
  8. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

    I too am amazed, coming from a technical background, and sympathize with you birch. Where I come from they built 20km of light rail (basically an electric tramway), in 2 stages from 2010 to the end of 2017, at a cost of nearly $100 million per km. And to make matters worse the other half of the project that extends to my cities airport (once again in 2 stages) has a current estimated cost of $3 Billion and has not been started.
    I would have to strongly disagree with you on those points RainbowSingularity. Firstly, our light rail was built by a foreign contracting company to a foreign design with foreign built trams and the initial idea and contracts were given out by a federal (and state) so called 'socialist/green' coalition government. This is actually the opposite to what China has done since the US (and much of the 'free' world) allowed their hyper capitalists to outsource many of their high technology production jobs and factories to China, effectively in return for those hyper capitalists becoming much much richer at the expense of the majority of their fellow citizens.

    Secondly, my brothers wife is Taiwanese, my cousins wife is mainland Chinese and our family is not of Chinese origin but of European origin around 5 generations ago (not US), so I would have to strongly disagree with you once again. The real problem is our major political party politicians have been selling out their own country and citizens.

    If you had any real inkling about the problems the world faces today you would probably have realized by now that most of the world's politicians, religious leaders and wealth holders have more in common with each other than they do with their respective people and, as a consequence, the world's people of various nationalities, religions, and political persuasions have more in common with each other than they have with their own political elites, religious leaders and wealth holders.

    In this respect China, as a 'communist' ruled 'capitalist' country, does a much better job than any 'capitalist' ruled 'capitalist' country and the increasing wealth of their citizens is ample evidence. Obviously they have more to do in respects to equity and pollution etc but that is actually happening just as fast as our own decline into mediocrity and social chaos.

    Finally, did you ever wonder why the citizens of Belfast, predominantly protestant, elect catholic Mayors? Hint, they don't go soft on their own crime gangs.

    BTW, "my mother she was orange and my father he was green".
  9. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    which socialist country are you talking about ?

    i didn't say i was anti Chinese(i am not anti Chinese) the bent in your comment seems a little accusatory, maybe its just the way you have typed your thoughts.

    there is quite a different discussion about the pure nature of economics and political systems and financial systems.
    capitalism as a basic process of trade is essential to human creativeness and invention, regardles of it being inside any type of political system.
    all political systems save the most savage blood cults allow creative capitalism so new ideas can be created to drive technology & business and society & culture.

    yes, i am well aware.
    however... that is quite a different discussion from the laymens version of "whats wrong with the world today" which drives media to deliver voting points of supposed policy.

    you cant make allergen free vegan meals in the middle of a shepherds pie factory
    such is society et-large

    the overall problem is extremely complicated
    far too complicated for politicians on the whole to solve, and far too complicated for the average person to learn how to think about it and learn what is involved and how things work, what will work and what wont.

    yet there is no other way. that is the way it is.

    many will go down with the ship if they can because that is their mentality and ideology, even if that means throwing their own children and grandchildren to the wolves.
    this is already happening in various ways.
    its not a very light hearted topic to get properly into.
    its very sad and depressing conceptualizing such things in their reality. but thats life.

    what i also do not miss is racially charged propaganda that may incite violence and increased racism and hatred.

    there is a thin line there.
  10. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    Jehovah's Witnesses are known for building churches in a weekend.
  11. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

    The Irish do that too (and then say it was built by 'angels', begorrah

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    ), and the Dutch/Germans can get together and build a two story barn in one weekend as well.

    It must have something to do with the cohesiveness of the social polity, which goes back to ancient Greece (in the western world at least).
    sideshowbob likes this.
  12. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

    I remember reading in Wikipedia many years ago that early 1930's Germany was the first country to utilize regular television programming (for propaganda purposes). Unfortunately that bit of text disappeared many years ago, probably when someone realized that is the main purpose of modern television, as broadcast media has no real feedback mechanism that can't actually be used for propaganda as well.

    The thin line is due to ethnocentricity being 'culture' based so how can any culture really claim they are superior to any other culture. That is apart from something like 'farming culture' which, at a much deeper and older level, is at the core of the development/evolution of the human race and is common in all societies today.

    As the ancient Romans would say in Latin, the 'pagans' (rural people).
  13. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

    Here's a few hints.

    A country where the major political parties both had their lowest first preference votes since WWI at the last national election and repeated 'hung' parliaments have been the final democratic resort for a people frustrated with the rampant waste and corruption. A country where the public service no longer contains any technical people and is stacked with political apparatchiks at the highest levels who mainly employ large numbers of foreign contractors because they tell them 'what they want to hear' instead of saying "that's a stupid idea, it will never work and it will just cost a fortune". A country where there is very little difference between high level corruption and high level incompetence because they both cost exactly the same huge amount.

    A country where the current 'left wing' political parties opposition leader was a union solicitor who traded a 2 cents per hour pay rise for minimum wage cleaners under their charge for a $30,000 kickback to employ someone so they could be elected as a MP 10 years ago. A country where in 1986, at a national level, the same 'left wing' political party effectively removed the State Governor's power of veto over all the legislation produced by all the nations state governments and then started selling off all of the nations public assets. A country where the Highest court defines it as a 'parliamentary democracy' instead of a 'constitutional democracy' because both major political parties are in on the scam.

    A country where the 'left wing' political party, when in government 10 years ago, raised the retirement age from 65 to 67 in their budget papers, spent the 5 billion dollars saved and then lumbered a different future government with a black hole of 5 billion dollars if they wished to revert the changes. A country where the current 'left wing' political parties opposition leader shafted the nations last real left wing leader, who had a 68% approval rating, installed a fake red headed ex union lawyer (from the same union) as boss who lied to the electorate just before the next national election and had to form a 'socialist/green' coalition because they didn't get enough votes.

    A country where a state 'left wing' party government prosecuted and jailed a red headed so called 'right wing' politician, who was originally elected in a seat that the previous 'left wing' party had held for 50 years, where the previous 'left wing' MP had been convicted of molesting young girls between the ages of 9 and 11 when they were a teacher. The red headed politician was exonerated by the states Supreme Court of Review after being locked up for 11 weeks. The same 'left wing' state government also prosecuted the states Chief Magistrate on trumped up charges and the Supreme Court of Review also exonerated them after 12 weeks in jail and paid them half a million in compensation, while the red head received nothing.

    A country where the same 'left wing' state government also incorporated article 9 of the UK's Imperial Bill of Rights 1688 into the state constitution so that no current MP could be prosecuted anywhere outside of the state parliament and later introduced legislation, now rescinded, so that one particular MP could not be charged with official corruption until they were turfed out of office, which they were. The next 'left wing' government failed to do the correct paperwork so that when the corrupt ex MP, who had not been exonerated by the Supreme Court of Review, was released from jail they received all of their superannuation payment minus the amount that they had been charged with corruptly receiving.

    A country where the succeeding leader of that 'left wing' state government, upon retirement, became the CEO of the countries 'Bankers Federation'. This state is effectively ground zero for NEWSCORP's owner who controls most of the local, regional, state and national newspapers, the sole national cable network and one of the 3 non government TV stations. They used to say that this country was 10 years behind the US but now we're 10 years ahead so look out.

    If you still haven't worked out which country it is I'll spell it out for you with a description of our useless politicians:- Asinine, Userous, Stupid, Traitorous, Rorting, Absurd, Lying, Incompetent, Arseholes.
  14. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    plants dont grow better when being planted by someone with a different accent.

    are you suggesting rich elitists lack humility delivered via working some hard labour in the fields for several years ?

    i believe some middle management now pay big money to go to boot-camps where they get ordered around like some nazi work detail.

    i think there is a certain amount of sexual fascination involved.
    much like Sub-Dom culture

    is there a process of cathartic holisticallism ? probably.
    but it sure does make a huge difference dependent on if the person holding the stick stops beating when the person being beaten asks them to stop.

    point of note
    only countrys where it is legal to have an opposing opinion to the government do you hear an opposing view.
    giving freedom of speech to those who have extremist ideological desires is not an equal voice of reason to macro-ecconomics.
    the British have a reputation for complaining. it is held with quite stringent moral cultural attachment and meaning.
    it gives them liberty humour & a lack of egocentrisim.
    contrasting that against the"we have the biggest penis" americans culture of "more is better"...
    is quite a moral impasse.

    Australia wants to run about yelling "we have the biggest penis" with moral abandon in the way they see the USA culture define its self.
    it is a sad irony considering Australia is more socially advanced than the usa as an over arching legal entity.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  15. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

    While there is more BS lying around on the ground in the country, rural people tend to be much more practical and speak much less BS than your typical city slicker and they are also not afraid to be honest.
    LOL, how ironic!

    I wrote the following txt for my local newspaper last year and it was published on April 24 (our ANZAC day is on the 25th April, a public holiday and no local newspaper is published) as the TXT of the day. The last Australian ANZAC (WWI ended in 1918) has died and they'd all be rolling in their graves if they could see what has happened to their country today.
  16. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    i suggest that it is not fear.
    it is the knowledge that the person they may be talking to, might be their next job interviewer.
    while the business community that runs the city & controls the farm gate price and the farmers mortgage & living costs, are a bunch of people from varying moral and religious collections.
    conglomerated into a working set of legal gray areas.

    the average city office worker can not afford to give a personal opinion that does not conform to their next employers public image.

    that is not fear.(there is a lot of general ignorance which is masked over with varying degrees and types of behaviors, THAT TO is a different discussion)
    that is business practicality.

    do people call it fear ? what do those people calling it fear, have to lose from the situation ? nothing ?
    this is called coward baiting
    labeling people as being a coward to try and get them to do something that will damage them.
    "keeping it real" is the knowledge that making public statements that do not align with your next job are not a smart OR brave move.
    the farmer has nothing to lose by voicing their personal opinion to a city worker because the farmer is selling a product, not a clientele listing or membership or customer-trust-base-of-like-clicks.

    apples with apples !

    the product is still the product. as long as its an ok product then customer/city worker will keep buying regardless of your personal beliefs or opinions.

    oranges with oranges !
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  17. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

    Up until recently Australians valued their public servants because they would give their professional opinions 'without fear nor favour'.

    Then, around 20-25 years ago some bright spark politician decided that managers don't have to know anything about what they 'managed' they just had to know how to manage. So they just excluded all of the technical people from the public service, made them all expendable contractors and hired a multitude of paper shuffling bureaucrats who would tell them what they wanted to hear instead of hiring people who could actually fix the problems.

    In the past 20 years this deliberate policy of 'bashing the public services brains out' has resulted, in my state alone, with a billion dollar Health system payroll failure that is still ongoing after 10 years. There is also a major problem with our state railway network because our politicians have failed miserably to maintain our current infrastructure because they stacked the upper decks with the type of people that you describe and the infrastructure they do want to build will not be required for another 15-20 years.

    The only real benefit is political because the general public does not get to know about their incompetence until the people responsible have been promoted and the state Auditor General's annual report that identifies the massive waste is buried in the news cycle.

    Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert posted this cartoon recently, he knows exactly what I'm talking about.

    While I don't actually condone it I must admit that China has a sure fire way to prevent these types of situations and the rampant corruption they promote. Back in ancient times they also had a very effective method of making sure their 'public servant' bureaucrats provided the best advice.
  18. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member


    You seem to have drifted off topic into a political rant that might be better suited to the Politics forum. Also, why talk in riddles? Are you worried that somebody might hold you to account for what you say?

    Hung parliaments happen when approximately equal proportions of the population support each of the two major political parties. You might be able to put an argument about frustration etc., but the mere fact of a hung parliament doesn't make that argument for you.

    You're referring to Bill Shorten. Perhaps you ought to make this into a thread if you want to make that accusation.

    1986 is going back a fair way. You're talking ... the Keating government?

    Huh? Australia is both a "parliamentary democracy" and a "constitutional democracy", isn't it? The two aren't mutually exclusive. We have a parliament. We have a constitution. I don't see your point.

    Which governments are you talking about now? At least this is slightly more current.

    So now you're talking about Bill Shorten's support of Julia Gillard's rolling of Kevin Rudd as PM?

    You're worried about Julia Gillard's hair colour? Why? It sounds like you've just decided you don't like her. Why? And what do you say she lied to the electorate about? Oh, and that coalition you talk about also managed to operate quite well as a government.

    You're starting to lose me, but is this about Pauline Hanson now? And remind me, who was the child molester?

    You think Pauline got a bad rap? Unrelated question: are you a One Nation voter, by chance?

    I'd have to look this one up. You sure have a long list of grievances you seem to want to get off your chest.

    Who are we on to now?

    Have we moved on to South Australia somewhere during the discussion? I must admit, I missed that in trying to decipher the code.

    10 years ahead in what, one might wonder... Who knows?

    Meh. Most of them have good intentions, with some exceptions. That's democracy for you.

    Assuming you support One Nation, are you still a keen supporter following the most recent NRA debacle, and the antics of Senator Anning etc.?
  19. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

    James R, I do not support One Nation or Pauline Hanson but I do prefer to look at politics in a way that removes the petty biases and bigotry that follows the main political parties, and their fervent supporters, around like a bad smell.

    I have merely been hi lighting the vast differences between how China is run, how Australia is being run and how the things as described in the OP, and the second post by the OP, do occur in China but don't occur in Australia.

    If you wish to learn more about Australian history you should look it up.'Arcy
  20. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member


    Thanks. I already have some familiarity with Australian history.

    There's a federal election next month, as you are no doubt aware, so you'll get to have your say then, along with the rest of us.
    RainbowSingularity likes this.
  21. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

    I saw an interesting show on the CGTN (China Global Television Network) documentary channel on cable yesterday that illustrates the connection between efficiency, quality and corruption with respect to public engineering exercises.

    One of the emperors in the Han dynasty was building a section of the Great Wall of China and, being aware of long term problems with material supply and corruption, he ordered that each and every brick used in the construction should be stamped with the names of the local, regional and provincial bureaucrats responsible for the production of that brick.

    The presenter remarked that this section of the wall remains intact after over 2 thousand years. This method of accountability is much preferable to either executing 30,000 corrupt bureaucrats every now and then or removing their testicles.

    I would have to say that, after working in both the public service as a technical professional and the construction industry in both the field and in a materials testing laboratory as a technical professional, this emperor is a man after my own heart.

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  22. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    = alt-right attack on intellectual secular power structures.
    = attack on unions
    = attack on working conditions
    = attack on wage rates
    = attack on regulations of quality & safety for the public

    no exactly, but practically the same.
    they wanted to make a new type of slave
    so they could control what the new bureaucrats would say and do and vote for to attack and undermine democracy while feeding the alt-right more power
    technically they have used it as vote winners to an ever increasingly selfish american ass-kissing culture clone of greed motivation(selfish jealous yes-men).
    feeding the selfishness of the voter while attempting to sell out the backdoor the entire system to private corporates.

    you do realise this is not socialism ?
    this is alt-right liberals pretending to be mixed market middle left democrats.

    sanlu milk powder scam ?
    bloody revolutions ?

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    look at all the batterys and such like with highly toxic fumes in the above picture
    heavy metals etc DNA damage RNA damage ? human reproduction damage?

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    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  23. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

    LOL, have you actually experienced anything so you can make an educated comment?

    (1) 'there are none so blind as those who will not see'.

    (2) I was a union member in a full union organization over 10 years ago and, under our state government EBA negotiated by the union, we only received a flat penalty rate of time and a half after working over 40 hours per week. I also worked in a non union organization, and yes I was one of 17 union members out of 230 employees, and that organization had full penalty rates for overtime and public holidays. At the second organization the 2 Union Reps (employees of the union) would come over to my home for meetings because the only place they were allowed to go at that organization was under full video surveillance.

    (3) The working conditions were just as bad in both organizations.

    (4) In 4 years I received 2 hours overtime in total at the first full union organization and thousands of dollars worth at the second. At the second non union organization the state EBA was passed against the wishes of the 17 union members as we received a 2 cents per hour pay rise (less than $1 per week) because the current leader of our nations so called 'left wing' opposition party negotiated the same hourly rate increase for people doing similar work in another state, for self serving political gain.

    (5) When I worked as a technical professional in the public service I was the only qualified IT professional out of 50 people in HR. I was employed so they would not replicate a billion dollar state payroll fiasco that is still ongoing after 10 years. I was held accountable as the Business Owner of that public service organizations Human Resource Information Systems and databases under state Information Privacy and Information Security legislation and yet I still had non technical people pressuring me to do things agains my professional judgement. I resisted and refused to do as they bid.

    I don't think it is productive to respond to your obvious trolling any further.

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