# Christianity Debunked

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Flash, Nov 1, 1999.

1. ### truestoryRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,122
Boris,

You seem to be experiencing a great deal of anxiety and are asking the same questions over and over which I have already answered. If the term "mankind" is a problem, maybe I should tell you that I believe that mankind includes individuals.

Maybe it would help if we consider just you and I for a moment, Boris:

As individuals, the difference between us with regard to this subject is this... As an atheist, you cannot recognize, participate in or understand direct communication "with" God because you deny the existence of God. I have had direct communication with God and understand it.

PS... Just something you might want to reflect upon, Boris... Were you born "Denying the existence of God?"

[This message has been edited by truestory (edited November 08, 1999).]

2. ### Google AdSenseGuest Advertisement

to hide all adverts.
3. ### BorisSenior MemberRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,052
truestory,

anxiety? Hardly. Exasperation would be closer to the truth. I'm beginning to suspect that you are beyond all reason. If you are not intentionally so, then my sincere condolences. Otherwise, whom do you think you are fooling?

But fine, let's talk about just you and me. Are you "mankind", or are you "truestory"? Do you see yourself as a civilization, or as an individual? I should hope for the latter, though strangely, you have been arguing from the point of view of the former all this time. Consider: when I ask why every single human individual that ever lived or will live (including even me and you), is not in personal communication with God, you answer with broad statements about mankind, egotism, and events of the distant past. Personally, I don't consider these to be "answers", since they do not actually address the questions -- which is why I keep asking them again and again.

Despite evading the historical and anthropological evidence to the emphatic fact that God <u>does not</u> directly communicate with even a significant number of humans (not to mention all), you have personally expressed the belief that God communicates with everybody, even atheists. Yet now, you state in utter self-contradiction that, 'As an atheist, you cannot recognize, participate in or understand direct communication "with" God because you deny the existence of God.' Pardon my open sneer, but this is just utterly ridiculous. Suppose I denied the existence of hand grenades, and one just happened to land right next to me -- do you think I would not perceive the effects merely because of my prior convictions? Do you seriously think that if God appeared before me as a burning bush or a tower of smoke, and spoke to me in his customary booming baritone, I would be oblivious of such communication because of my prior convictions? Come on! Is this the best you can do?

LMAO. Oh yeah, I should <u>really</u> be the one pondering such a question. Thanks for asking indeed! So how about it, do you seriously believe that I was born denying the existence of God? Obviously not; I was born with no knowledge whatsoever, just as were you. Why do you think I became an atheist? Do you think it was because God just wouldn't leave me alone, with all his chatter? Please!

P.S. It would do you a lot of good, if you at least pretended to be logically consistent, and stopped contradicting yourself all the time.

------------------
I am; therefore I think.

[This message has been edited by Boris (edited November 08, 1999).]

4. ### Google AdSenseGuest Advertisement

to hide all adverts.
5. ### LoriRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,065
No shit, searcher. Sometimes getting through those posts of yours Boris, is like having a tooth pulled. All that, and you just don't get it still. It's not like that at all. Listen, I've heard all of the arguements; I've read it all, and for a while I believed it, or at least thought it was probable. Listen, I'm not trying to "explain the heavens", Ok? I'm not trying to scientifically account for anything. I could really care less at this point. I attribute science TO God. And no, it's not the same thing as finding peace within myself, or going to a psychologist. I can find peace within myself when I get stoned. It's different from what you think it is. It's EXACTLY like this....all your life you've had a very bad vision problem, but you never went to the doctor, and somehow you got through school and no one caught it, and you just thought everybody saw things that way. As a matter of fact, lots of people needed glasses, and say they just didn't have prescription eyewear at that time, so no one could see shit. Then someone finally figures out how to make glasses, and you put yours on for the first time. THAT'S how it is. You're not necessarily going to see things you didn't see before, it's just that your perspective is entirely changed, and things are a lot more clear. And that in a way, doesn't necessarily make your life easier. At first, it's actually kind of difficult, and I still struggle with cynicism sometimes. But the peace you find in salvation and in faith is unparalleled and totally worth the effort! How about this? You do a little mental excercise and get back with me on your thoughts. And I really want you to give this some honest thought, and humor me. Pretend like there is a God. And pretend like He made us, and He made the earth and everything on it and in it. When we got here, the whole place was a beautiful garden of lush veggies, fruits, nuts, clean water, and fresh air. Ok, now what the hell are we doing? How do you justify what you spend most of your time doing nowadays, because I'll tell you how I spend mine, but remember our assumed perspective. I get up at the f'ing crack of dawn to some screeching alarm clock. I rush around the house half asleep trying to get myself presentable and feed the animals and guzzle some coffee, and then fly out the door with coffee in tow. I spend 45 minutes in my car in rush hour traffic and arrive at my job, where I sit chained to a PC all day long counting someone else's money, and putting it into little "buckets", and help management decide how to squeeze every little last dime out of the company while they all stare at my boobs (because, of course, they're all old white men). I get 45 minutes for lunch in which I GET OUT OF THERE and snarf down some fast food. At the end of the day, when my brain is toast, I spend another 45 min behind some cement truck on the way home, with a guy in my rear-view about 1 inch from my bumper looking like he wants to kill someone. I get home mentally drained, let the dog out, maybe feed myself, take a shower, answer my e-mails, and oops look at that, it's time for bed. I get to go to bed alone every night now since AFTER we got married my husband decided that it was ok if I paid ALL of the bills and developed a fancy for pornography, and upon realizing this, I threw all his stuff out the front door and sent him back to mommy's. I guess if I want some exercise NOW, I'll have to go to some INDOOR gym and run and lift weights on MACHINES, while I watch all of the little yuppies in their spandex butt-thongs admiring themselves. How hideous.

I mean, take sex for example. What's it for? Making babies, right? I mean, are there any biologists here that could back me up on this? So what do WE USE it for? Just about everything but. We make our babies in test tubes now, you know since by the time we get around to the college degree, and the house the suburbs, and the 2 1/2 car garage, and hey, do ya think you can find a man who won't screw around on ya? Gooooood luck. It's possible! By the time you meet him and get all the stuff, you may have had an abortion, or a STD or two, and you're so old that your eggs are all shribbled up and he can't get it up anymore! LMAO! No, see in today's society, sex is no big deal, shit, it's bought and sold! And what are you going to do with a kid anyway? Stick it in a daycare so someone else can raise it? You know, while you go to work everyday at some place that makes a bunch of shit that no one really needs anyway, so you can make a bunch of money to buy your childcare and a bunch of other shit that no one really needs anyway? See what I mean about the cynicism? Hey, but it's all A.O.K., cause NOW and only now do I see the truth, and I see all of this muck for what it truly is. Ok Boris, now you try on those glasses, and tell me what you see.

------------------
God loves you and so do I!

6. ### Google AdSenseGuest Advertisement

to hide all adverts.
7. ### BorisSenior MemberRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,052
Lori,

My sincere condolences. I understand that we all have different lives, and cope at different levels. I won't go into details, but my life is not nearly (not even by a moon shot) as distressing as yours. Neither do I plan for it to be...

But, your religion <u>is</u> a theory. Remember expounding on all the "spiritual laws" you discovered? Remember attributing science to God (strange, since it was developed entirely by humans)? Remember wondering what comes after death? In truth, you found not a savior, but a whole lot of answers to questions. I.e., a theory. And a conspicuously bad one at that (which is why you still have all the bouts of cynicism.) And your "changed perspective" is still entirely suited to the analogy I provided earlier. You found AN explanation, A perspective, ONE way to cope. You did not, of course, find THE explanation, THE perspective, or THE way.

You are aware, of course, that when humans "got here", the earth was not a beautiful garden, but an incredibly hostile place that nearly drove humans to extinction? Such an early near-extinction event has recently been found recorded in the human genome. Not to mention that all inference, from archeological to cosmological, is constantly pointing to God's non-reality. If God actually is real, it sure made a big deal of covering up all evidence of its own existence. Almighty God, the Ultimate Deceiver?

As to what the hell we are doing -- that's a question each of us should ask themselves on a personal level, and hopefully on a daily basis. I, for one, know exactly what I am doing.

------------------
I am; therefore I think.

8. ### truestoryRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,122
Boris,

I'll try it another way...

You originally asked if God communicated "to" everyone. My answer was, and still is, yes.

Again, however, communication is a two-way street. In this case, God is the "sender" and you are the "receiver". However, the atheist "receiver" is shut down and cannot recognize, participate in or understand God's communication.

Summary: No matter how many messages God sends to you directly and no matter how hard God tries to communicate with you directly, Boris, as long as you continue to deny God's existence, (as long as you are shut down) you cannot communicate "with" God.

PS

I am seriously happy that you will be willing to accept Jesus Christ when he comes again... when God is revealed to you like the hand-grenade in your example. Therefore, I pray that you live long-enough to witness the revelation, because then, you will end up sharing in everlasting happiness with God.

During the first coming, Jesus Christ told us that whoever is first will be the last and whoever is last will be the first.

Unfortunately, he also told us that there will still be those who, regardless of the revelation, will still not believe. I am glad that you will not be one of them, Boris!

[This message has been edited by truestory (edited November 08, 1999).]

Messages:
1,065
Boris,

What a cop out. You didn't do the exercise. And don't feel so bad for me. Lot's of people have lives just like mine or worse (better?), I question because they like their lives like that, or at least they convince themselves they do. People admire me, and look up to me, and sometimes envy me for what I have and the life I've led. I'm the American feminists dream. I've been Ms. Buy-in for crying out loud. Defining myself against society's standards, and excelling to the nth degree. The difference is that a lot of those achievements don't add up to a hill of beans in the Kingdom, and many of the things I've done in life have been for the wrong reasons, I just didn't really know it at the time. It's like I knew something was wrong or missing, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. I looked around all the time and by society's standards, I was pretty impressive actually. I mean what's reallly important nowadays? Money has to be first. I dare anyone to argue that one. Sex, education, and entertainment? That sounds about right. Well, I've worked since I was 16. Graduated with Honors. Independent financially since age 18. Paid my own way through college. Got straight A's in calculus, and I swear I took the entire class stoned to the bone. Speech too. I've been described as a little human computer. Nothing I've ever attempted to learn has been the slightest bit challenging for me mentally. That's why I had the freedom to play around as much as I have. Bought my own home at age 23. That's not bad. Financial Analyst, $50K a year at 32. Not bad, especially considering I'm totally bored with what I do! I've never had to be dependent on a man for anything except you know, and I haven't taken any shit from them either. Out the door you go, mister wrong. No biggie. There's plenty more where that came from. There are a ton of women out there right now laying down good money to look like I do. I can have a guy's pants around his ankles within 10 minutes of a dare, on a bad day. Single, married, gay, straight, doesn't matter (unless they're saved in Christ). God help those women, but that's honestly what they think is important. And why? Well, Boris, do you live on the same planet that I do or what? You tell me. So don't feel bad. Most people look at my job, education, car, house, checking account, the way I look, and my past sex life, and say, "geez, what more could you possibly ask for???!!!" I just don't buy it anymore. Believe me, I gave it my best shot, but it just didn't work. Jesus works. ------------------ God loves you and so do I! 10. ### SkyeBlueRegistered Senior Member Messages: 260 Lori - Hello! I don't believe I've ever posted a reply to you before, despite your infamy... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I can't resist though - I just don't understand your point in this last post. You have worked hard, you're a genius, you're independent...what does that have to do with religion? You say yourself you did most of these things before you found your faith...what was your point again?? I must say my story is similar to yours, at least in part. I too worked since I was 15 years old. In high school I had 3 jobs, plus taking advanced college-level courses, I was supporting my family due to my father's job collapsing under him. I have lived through hell and high water. I have woken up suprised to be still alive, and yet somehow God never gave me a bit of support, real or imagined. Nowadays, I am happily married (by the way, God wasn't at our wedding either - He wasn't invited, His name was not invoked), my husband & I have a healthy relationship despite all the internal garbage I brought to the relationship. We have worked through everything, we are financialy independant, we are buying a house. I am 24. Which is all fine and dandy, but pretty irrelevant to our relious beliefs! Would my life be any better, or any different if I believed in God? Nope, I don't think it would be any better. Different? Well, maybe the sex wouldn't be as good, that's the only difference I can imagine. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I was raised with a Catholic mother. She tried and tried to "put the fear of God" into me as a child. I worried as a kid that thinking about sex would damn me to hell. I worried that if I was mean to my little sister, God would get pi$\$ed and smite my childish butt. But then I realized that I needed to figure out for MYSELF what was right, and wrong, and mean, and good. I had to decide, it was all up to ME. Once I realized that, I put together my OWN set of morals and beliefs, and they have apparently served me quite well. These "lessons" that "God wanted me to learn" were just my mother's own beliefs and morals that she was trying to pass on to me. Which, of course is what all mothers do. But each and every one of us has had to decide for ourselves what is right and wrong.

Belief in a God has never benefitted me. When I was 16, I had something happen to me. I don't like to talk about it much, but let me just tell you that I lost lots and lots and LOTS of blood, and I was alone in a remote place. I couldn't stand, I was finally unable to even crawl anymore. I had nobody to help me. I began to feel drowsy, and I believed I was dying. Did I pray to God? NO. Why? Because I knew that was futile. What did I do? I thought about my family, and how much they might miss me - I knew my worries were about to be over forever. Then I closed my eyes, expecting to slip into oblivion. Imagine my suprise when I woke up the next morning! The sun rose, and woke me. Did I praise God for keeping me through the night? No. Did I weep like a baby, grateful that I had made it through the night? You Betcha!!

What's my point? If I had prayed to God, would that have changed anything? Would it have brought me peace of mind? Nope. I don't think so. I made it through that night because my body was healthy enough to withstand the damage. Praying to God might have made me feel a little better, but you can kid yourself into a lot of things for your own peace of mind. That doesn't make them any truer.

11. ### BorisSenior MemberRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,052
Lori,

Of course I didn't do the exercise! You know, it may be a serious thing to you, but to me believing in God is very akin to believing in Santa Claus. The day I catch myself doing that, I'll have my head examined.

My point still stands, though. Even if you don't recognize it, all religions are but poor theories. Incidentally, that's the real reason why, in my estimation, religion cannot coexist with science. Bad theories get dumped when better theories come along... If the only statement of any religion was existence of supernatural, then I wouldn't have such a problem -- since that is only (a rather arbitrary, but) an uncontested theory. However, when religions expand into metaphysics, origin, morality, mind, social dynamics, ecology, cosmology or what have you -- that's when I draw the line. Any religion that crosses the line, in my view, effectively cuts its own throat.

------------------
I am; therefore I think.

12. ### BorisSenior MemberRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,052
truestory,

Don't jump the gun. If God does indeed present to me, it will still be a long time before I choose to accept that it's indeed God and not something else. Remember, I don't believe in God, and in my view God is not any more likely to exist than the seven dwarfs.

As for communication, I'm sorry for a misunderstanding. In my lingua, "communicate to" denotes two-way communication (communicate == exchange information). I distinguish "communicate to" from "communicate with" only in the sense that the first unilaterally initiates communications, while the latter participates in a bilaterally-initiated exchange. If it was one-way, I would say something like "transmit", or "send". And by the way, I did double check, and this is indeed the correct usage of words. So how about the free English lesson?

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

But no matter, you are still not making sense.

First of all, you are taking a rather limited view of God's powers. Don't you think that if God wanted to communicate with me, it could <u>easily</u> make me pay attention? You are painting God as some kind of a broadcast station, to which we, as receivers, have to be tuned. A bit inflexible, and a tad too limited, isn't it?

Secondly, it's not just atheists who seem to be deaf to God's "communication". Take any agnostic. Take any Massai, Wiccan, Taoist, Animist, Sikh. In fact, take any of the people in this world who do not recognize the judaic God. So what is it that is common to all these people, that makes them unable to communicate with God? The only answer: they are not Christians, Muslim, or Jewish. So, apparently atheism has nothing to do with it after all, does it?

Finally, you still never answered the question of why, until some 6000 years ago, not even a single human was apparently in communication with God. And how did God manage to make its first contact with the human race, if at some point <u>none</u> of the people on earth believed in God (though I wager at that point none of them were atheist, either)?

------------------
I am; therefore I think.

13. ### truestoryRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,122
Boris,

Did you ever hear the expression that goes something along the lines of: "Talking 'to' him/her is like talking 'to' a wall"...?

I realize that we have gotten into semantics here. I realize that one can (attempt to) communicate "to" another. However, the communication system only works if there is an interchange of sending AND receiving.

Again, Boris, with regards to your question:

Again, Boris, I disagree with your premise. I will restate my answer:

1. The promise of a savior was not the first communication that God had with humans. God has communicated with humans from the beginning.

2. The communication which you speak of above was a communication from God which "specifically addressed" God's plan for salvation through a savior.

3. Prior to that, although God communicated, too many people had turned away from God and would not be able to share in all eternity with God according to God's plan. This created the need for a savior.

4. Since God wants to share in all eternity with as many souls as possible, God sent a savior.

[This message has been edited by truestory (edited November 09, 1999).]

14. ### SkyeBlueRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
260
If I may butt in a little here - true' - this brings me back to one of my old questions - #4 says God wants to share with as many souls as possible. Why not send yet another savior then? Surely God realizes that nobody that knew his first incarnation remains!

15. ### truestoryRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,122
SkyeBlue,

I believe we have been down this road before, too.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

What is it that a "different" savior could do for you other than to offer you salvation which is already yours for the taking?

Would a "different" savior satisfy your individual egoism? If God did send a "another" savior, what would have to occur in order for you to believe that they were truly a savior? What form would they have to take? Human, just like us? Alien, like the little green/gray beings? Would the "different" savior have to perform specific "tricks" for you on demand before you would believe that it was in fact, a savior? Do you think that there would immediately be more believers based on the savior's performance of the tricks which you prescribe? Or, would there be those who insist that the savior was just a good illusionist? Would the savior have to perform different tricks for everyone? Would there be those who would want the savior dead? Would another "crucifixion" occur? Would we then have to have an autopsy of the savior and microscopically analyze the savior's body? If the savior came in the form of a human, would we need to study the savior's DNA to determine if it was the same/different from that of humans? If it was the same, would there be more believers or would there be those who say that it was just another human who could perform good tricks? If the DNA was somewhat different, would there be more believers or would there be those who say that the savior is another life form from another planet? If the savior came in a form different from ours, such as that of a green/gray alien, how would we determine whether it was a savior sent from God or just another life-form visiting from another planet?

If God sent a "different" savior, other than Jesus Christ, would there then be those that say, "Hey, God. Wait just one minute here! For centuries you've been telling us that Jesus Christ was THE savior and that He would come again. Now, you send a 'different' savior!?" Would a "different" savior truly alleviate human skepticism? Or, would it create more human skepticism?

A "different savior" could only offer the gift of salvation... which is already ours for the taking, SkyeBlue. Some of us choose to accept it and some of us choose to reject it. If you need the savior to be with you always, SkyeBlue, using your free will and accepting Jesus Christ into your life would fully satisfy that need.

God has a plan for our salvation. Although it might be different from what you would do if you were God, God has been kind enough to share the plan with us for centuries. God came to us in the form of a savior, THE savior, Jesus Christ, who WILL come again. Although we, personally, might not have seen Him in the flesh as of yet... The time that He did spend with us is well-documented (in accordance with God's plan) and we do know of Him. He is also here for us and with us now in the form of the Holy Spirit. We will see Him again. But, we must accept Him as our savior before we can share with Him for all eternity.

[This message has been edited by truestory (edited November 09, 1999).]

16. ### BorisSenior MemberRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,052
truestory,

And the reasons why you believe this is so, are...?

<hr>

On a sidenote, I've got a couple of new questions.

Since you are (presumably) one of those with whom God is supposedly in communication right now -- what forms does the "communication" take?

Is it possible for you to discuss the existence of God without assuming the existence of souls, or afterlife? (Note: for me, those are assumptions whose credibility is also just about at the level of the seven dwarves. So if we argue the point of God's communication, I would like to stay away from other unknowns; otherwise the argument becomes entirely too defocused and circular.)

<hr>

Also, God obviously <u>must</u> have communicated with humans, as otherwise you would have to consent invalidity of Zionism, the Old Testament, etc. So... If God was able to communicate with humans <u>before</u> Christ, why did he need Christ to come about? It seems the communication was already working. There was already a Torah, and the 10 commandments. The word was out, for people to hear and accept or reject. So it seems "God's plan" is totally unjustified!

Also, if God was in communication with humans, once again, why does Judaism not stretch back to the Neanderthals, at the latest? If God wanted to surround itself with more souls, why did it only start to actively woo them with a small tribe in the middle of a desert thousands of generations <u>after</u> humans had already spread all over the world?

Not to mention that your broadcaster/receiver model of uni-directional contact with God sounds implausible even to a believer.

------------------
I am; therefore I think.

[This message has been edited by Boris (edited November 09, 1999).]

17. ### truestoryRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,122
Boris, you wrote:

Uh... Well... Since you did mention it, Boris... My position is that: If a message (in this case God's) is sent but not received because the receiver (the atheist in this case) is shut down, then the communication process could not be completed. What's so implausible about that? And, who is/are the believer/believers who, as you claim, find this to be implausible?

[This message has been edited by truestory (edited November 10, 1999).]

18. ### JMitchRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
129
truestory--

What you have just described is similar to another *theory* out there. Several new age authors, notably Lyssa Royal, have said that the minds of two individuals must converge in order for telepathic communication to result. I assume you have never read or looked into any new age stuff. But, there is something that is starring you dead in the face that you either haven't taken into consideration or are ignoring because of your religious bias. The aliens with whom you've had contact with spoke to you telepathically right? Then why, truestory, have you been so quick to accept the source of your subsequent communications to be God? And please don't say you *know* because of what it said.(behold the father... etc)

Ps- I am being sincere.

19. ### SkyeBlueRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
260
true' - leaving my personal salvation out of this... my point is simply that if God really does want AS MANY SOULS AS POSSIBLE to join him in eternal bliss, he needs to get off his all-powerfull duff and start intervening. Surely he knows his creations are flawed, fickle beings? And, if there is such a God, surely he could send a messiah that could convince even the most stodgy non-believers. Or, maybe he doesn't even need to send a messiah. Howabout appearing in person once in a blue moon? Why doesn't He pop on in and visit the Pope every once in awhile? Too busy? Too snobby?

As far as contradicting himself by sending a messiah that wasn't Jesus...why not usher the new guy down to Earth and give a little orientation. "Yah, I know, I said I'd send Jesus back, but he's on vacation right now, so here's Bob. You guys needed an extra hand, and Bob here's willing to pitch in for the next 40 years or so." Surely God is allowed to change his mind? Would the faithful throw up their hands in disgust - "well, I can take all the other contradictions in the bible, but this is just TOO MUCH! I'm going to go worship Satan now."

20. ### BorisSenior MemberRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,052
truestory,

What's impossible about it is that you are reducing God to a passive transmitter. Quite a curtailment of the almighty powers for a creator of the entire universe, whose capabilities and motivations are beyond any human comprehension! You've managed to reduce the supposedly incomprehensible to an electrical engineering problem! (The believers consist of two Christians and one Baha'i with whom I work.)

Btw, thanks for trying to address the last sentence of my post. Now, how about the rest of it?

------------------
I am; therefore I think.

21. ### truestoryRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,122
Boris,

As you know, it was an analogy put forth in an attempt to have you understand why you are not hearing the "communication". Think about a message being put forth by the most powerful television broadcast known to man. If Boris' television is turned off, Boris is not going to receive the message. If Boris has questions about the message, Boris can only rely on the words of others who have seen.

PS:

In due time, Boris... So many questions, so little time. It might help if you turn your TV on...

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

[This message has been edited by truestory (edited November 10, 1999).]

22. ### truestoryRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,122
JMitch,

Actually, I have read about "new age stuff". And yes, although the aliens were of solid physical form, they spoke with me telepathically. One of the things that they instructed me to do was to lie about my experience with them. I did not do what they asked because, even at the age of five, I knew it was wrong. Religious or not, I think that most of us probably grew up in households where we were taught not to lie to our parents?

A few years ago, God appeared to me and instructed me to spread the word. Contrary to what you insist about a previous religious bias, as I have stated before, I was not "religious" prior to this experience. Yes, over the years, I had various unsolicited experiences with what some consider to be paranormal. I had various revealing premonitions and warnings and I even had my mother's spirit manifest itself to me in a translucent, physical form which I could see. These experiences did show me evidence of an afterlife, however, I did not necessarily associate these experiences with God. Like many, I had questions, but I just accepted my experiences and went on with my usually mundane life. As of a few years ago, I was actually apathetic about the existence/non-existence of God and, although I had heard about it, I had never read the Bible. It was only after this particular communication did I take the path of studying and following the life and teachings (the word) of Jesus Christ.

As I said, I was sightseeing in New York City. All of a sudden, there came a physical force sending excruciating pain through my body. I was getting the message that there was "something" that wanted me to move away from my physical location. I also quickly sensed that the "something" was not good (and I never did like bullies) so I stood my ground. Next, a multitude of horrible, SCREAMING spirits flew at and by my head, in what I sensed was another attempt to get me to move from that spot. I sensed that something good was going to happen which these spirits did not want me to see. Again, I stood my ground. After what seemed forever (but it was actually only about ten to twenty seconds), the pain, the chaos, the screaming and the "bad" spirits disappeared. I had a clarity of vision and I was engulfed with a feeling of peace when the spirit of a woman manifested itself to me (again, translucent) in a manner that I could see. With mouth moving (not that it should make much difference), the woman said, "Behold, the Father." Next, the spirit of an ancient male manifested itself to me in the same manner. I immediately "knew" that it was God, "The Father," before the message was even given. The message itself confirmed what I already knew to be true. When God, the Father said, "Behold, the Son," the spirit of an infant was also manifested in the same manner. The message was clear, pure and loving and I "knew" the Son to be Jesus Christ... "Through Him, all good things will come."

After this communication, as I said, I started studying the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. It is no coincidence that the message I received was reiterated throughout Biblical history and during the life of Jesus Christ. The magnificence of the message and our God who sent it cannot be denied.

[This message has been edited by truestory (edited November 10, 1999).]

23. ### LoriRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
1,065
God will not and can not offer up another Saviour. He is not the author of confusion. If He were to offer another Saviour, then all of us who read and follow the Bible would be inclined to think this person was the Antichrist. Which he will be. Watch. The master teacher, with support from the aliens. The new age teachings that I've read ALL about are the one-world religion of the end times that the Antichrist and the aliens will foster. The reason that new agers can get into astral projection and telepathy and all else is because these spiritual laws actually exist. They never deny that, they can't, or they would be known to be fraudulent. All they do is take the laws that God made, and do exist, and attribute them to themselves, or to ourselves. The number of the beast is the number of man.

------------------
God loves you and so do I!