Christians .....can they really be friends to non-believers???

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Flash, Jan 14, 2000.

  1. Flash Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    771
    Throughout my life I have had christian friends. Some closer than others. In my dealings I have found two things to be in common with all these "friendships".

    1) They have all tried to witness..sharing what they believe is true in hopes I would
    jump on the train with them

    2) When they were told..no, sorry..ect...
    they have pulled out and launched attacks..no matter what the cost...just as long as their project, which was mistaken as friendship on my part, would admit they are wrong and then accept Jesus into to my heart..that then shuts them up.

    Now that I think about it...were they REALLY
    friendships????? I mean they all seem to get off on sharing dirty laundry about someones life...not just about me..I have witnessed them doing it to others as well.

    I find it rather funny how they can state that the anti-christ spirit that is among the non-believers is deceiving... Is there really much difference between them and this
    anti-christ deception?

    I don't know..I just don't know.

    Have any others out here had similar happenings? If so..I would like to read any
    responses that you would like to share.

    ------------------
    Faith: not wanting to know what is true.
    ..........Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

    [This message has been edited by Flash (edited January 14, 2000).]
     
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  3. Micah Registered Senior Member

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    48
    Flash;
    No, they were not your friends. The love of Christ goes beyond trying to change ones free will, Christ came to break the law not to make a new one.. Christ says that the greatest thing is love, you can do all these great and mighty things all in his name, but if you do not have love, it is all worthless, useless. The power of His spirit is much more powerful than my intellectual persuasions.. Christ will draw one of their own accord to him. If one truly loves Christ, his love for you is not measured on what you believe or dont believe, it just is... You are created in Gods image, you are a child that he desires to know just as a mother or a father loves a child w/ all of their heart so does Christ.. As humans we all battle with the same obstacles, lust, lying, pride, selfish ambition, etc.. Christian is a good name for many to use to hide behind their own prideful glory. Christ sees whats in all of our hearts, and that why he said put no trust in any man, man will always let you down.. Measure a man by his heart.. LOL.....
     
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  5. Flash Registered Senior Member

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    771
    Micah,
    Yeah, well...it's a let down ... and they wonder why we don't trust them... it's all
    a pile of BS....
    later..
     
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  7. Micah Registered Senior Member

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    I am sorry Flash.. LOL
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,884
    Flash--

    I believe the simplest answer is "No, Christians are incapable of being friends to non-believers on the simple grounds that they refuse."

    It's actually to the point where I account for Christian faith when I meet someone--no initial conclusions, just a little psychological check-box. Because there is a nearly bigoted assumption that I've chosen to stop dealing with.

    It seems that, eventually, an issue comes up that pertains to that other person's faith ... whether it be marriage, sex in general, sexual orientation, free speech, ad infinitum ... that draws a line in the sand. They cannot convert the sinner who sins by believing otherwise, thus they cannot, with any clear conscience, go on being your friend: compassion evaporates when you disagree. They seem to think they have no obligation to see any other perspectives, and suddenly the terms of friendship are in peril. They can't be around you because you insist on actively sinning by not agreeing with their assessment of God's will. So you say, "To hell with it."

    And I might address the notion of bigotries in my summary, and it's a question I ask about a few things in life:

    "What more than 100% do I need to see?"

    In other words ... I'm still waiting for this principle to NOT spring up and bite me in the ass. Childhood, high school, college, and even a couple of years after I quit school--eventually, I chose to stop trying in order to save myself the concussions of beating my head against a spiritual brick.

    But that's the best I can offer, Flash.

    * * * * *

    Lori--

    Umm ... wow. May Christ's peace someday find YOU. After all, if that's your version of it, who the hell wants it?

    Or does God let you just say that the expressed sentiment of your chosen words isn't hostile toward Flash? I mean, that is the convenient thing, eh? God's will is whatever you decide it is? You just say it isn't?

    See, that's the whole joke about modern faith. It would be easy to fix, but it doesn't seem to be that you want to.

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    --Tiassa

    ------------------
    Take a side you say, it's black and gray. And all the hunters take the hunted merrily out to play. We are one, you say, but who are you? You're all too busy reaping in the things you never sown. And this beast must go on and on and on .... Nobody gives a damn. (Floater; "Beast")
     
  9. SkyeBlue Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    260
    Flash -

    Hey baby, hang in there!

    Yes, I have had the same durn thing happen to me. I was pretty unpopular in elementary school after 4th grade - I moved into a new area that was "rich" and my family was "poor", so I didn't have Guess Jeans and jelly shoes like the rest of the kids. I did finally find a buddy in 5th grade - she was new to the area and therefore an outcast like me. We were best friends that whole year. During the summer, her Mom became a Christian and basically brainwashed my friend into thinking that if I didn't believe in Jesus, I would drag both of us into Hell.

    Next year, 6th grade, she talked nonstop about "the love of Jesus". I still tried to be friends, I even went to church with her a few times (even though I was very uncomfortable there, all the other parishoners kept pestering me about joining) but eventually I told her that I wouldn't go anymore, and that if she didn't stop telling me I was a "sinner" and "going to Hell" constantly I wouldn't be friends with her anymore. So that ended the friendship, and we both finished off 6th grade without any friends at all. I could have been friends with her, but all she wanted to do was convert me, she wouldn't let it drop. Day after day after day, to the exclusion of anything else. I don't care what the topic is, that kind of mindless droning gets to be just too much, after a few weeks.

    On the other hand, the very next year, 7th Grade, I met a very nice girl who was a Christian. We were pretty good friends, we lived close to eachother so that made it easy. She did talk to me about it a few times, and invited me to come to church with her a few times. I did go once or twice, but again felt uncomfortable with the rest of the parishoners and stopped going. But she was able to see past our religious differences and be my friend despite my "sinful" ways. We lost contact after high school, but we weren't really that close anyway, we just lived close to eachother and went to school together.

    So, Flash, in a nutshell, I would say don't expect someone NOT to be your friend just because they are Christian. I think it varies highly from person to person. And it probably also varies with their age and how long they've held their faith. I imagine a "new Christian" might be more over-zealous about sharing their newfound faith than someone who has had those beliefs longer. Just like my friend - that was 5th/6th grade, perhaps once she had been Christian a little longer she would have calmed down.
     
  10. Micah Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    48
    I give a damn.......... It would be an honor to be your friend Flash...
     
  11. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    2,478
    I have plenty of friends who are Christians, some harder-core than others. Only once did one try to convert me. I told her I'd much rather be her friend than her follower. Of course she began expounding all the "friendship in Christ" stuff, to which I responded "If your God wants to speak to me, he will do it himself. Don't try to force his hand." She got what I meant, that none of her coersion and coaxing was going to work, that if I was interested I would come knock on the door. She stopped trying to "save" me and our friendship continued. None of my friends from other faiths have tried to convert me, although we could always openly discuss religion without condemning each other to hell.

    I guess I've just been lucky, although my father's cousin still thinks we're a bunch of devil-worshippers because I own a crystal ball.

    ------------------
    I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight, kill, and die for your right to say it.

    [This message has been edited by Oxygen (edited January 14, 2000).]
     
  12. ISDAMan Thank You Jesus! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    378
    Flash,

    You've told me, "No!", about Christ all along (for the most part). I still love you anyway. I think of you as a friend. I wish we were closer. Still, could I be your friend and not tell you that your pants are split down the back? If you choose to do nothing, what can I do about it? A friend is there anyway. A Christian, one in truth and not self-proclamation, is understanding anyway. This grows as that person becomes more mature in Christ. Those you spoke of, bore a lack of maturity or were false.

    A friend is born for adversity,
    ISDAMan
     
  13. ISDAMan Thank You Jesus! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    378
    Flash,

    I apologize to you for the disgusting words of one of the Body. You have my deepest regrets on the matter. You know that her ill words do not speak for the whole of the Body of Christ. They do, however, stain the whole. I'm sorry. We will be praying for God to work in Lori's heart.

    Your Friend,
    ISDAMan


    truestory,

    Please, Please, Please, I need you to e-mail me!!!! It's a very important matter of Christ.

    Thanks Sis,
    ISDAMan
     
  14. truestory Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,122
    tiassa,

    Here's an example of stereotypical judgement... a Christian cannot be friends with a sinner...

    Was it really a matter that they couldn't be with you? Or, was it a matter that you chose not to be with them? I really mean no offense here. I am wondering, though, what the sin was? The reason I ask is because it seems that you are the one who is saying "To hell with the relationship." I take it that this has been your personal experience with certain individuals.

    If you would allow me to share with you from my personal experience... If it was a matter that I couldn't be with people because they insist on actively sinning, then, I couldn't be around most of my family and friends. One who is with Jesus Christ does not turn their back on the sinners of this world.

    Now, if it's a matter that the person is say, doing illegal drugs (and I am not insinuating that was the situation)... and they insist on bringing the illegal drugs into my home, for example... then, yes, I would have to draw a line and tell them that although they were loved and welcome in my home, the illegal drugs were not.

    Such a decision, by the way, would not stem from my Christianity.
     
  15. Searcher Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    651
    Lori,

    Promises don't mean much to you, do they? In fact, I'm guessing they're pretty much as disposable as friendships in your book.

    ------------------
    www.indigenousrocks.com
     
  16. ilgwamh Fallen Angel Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    317
    There is a verse that Christians wrongfully quote and say we are not to be friends with non christians.

    There is no problem with a christian being very close friends with a non christian as long as the christians faith in Jesus is stronger than the non christians lack of faith in Jesus. If the non christians belief is stronger than the christians then the christian will be pulled away and stumble in his relationship with Jesus.

    Sometimes when you hang out with a friend or are very close to someone you do lots of things together. If something the non christian does on a normal basis for recreation is sinful then you can't really do this with them. Being around non christians all day will cause a christian to assimilate that life style. What if they listen to music whose lyrics you find sinful and repulsive? What if you find swearing or cigarrette smoke repulsive? Its kind of hard to get a relationship going sometimes. But I have a lot of non christian friends. I'll witness if I get the chance but I'm not going to shove the Bible down their throat. That would just drive them away.

    Some people view our preference towards certain types of people over others as being no more wrong than our preference towards certain types of food over others is wrong. It is bad to treat a person with prejudice just because they are a little different but it is not wrong if you'd rather be in the company of non smokers than smokers.

    Vinnie

    Praise Jesus!!!

    [This message has been edited by ilgwamh (edited January 14, 2000).]
     
  17. H-kon Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    312
    Flash - Think about this and you'll understand.

    Non-christians always trust christians for some reason, but it's not the other way around now is it?

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    Atleast, that's my personal experience.

    ------------------
    .Religion is for those who fear hell, Spirituality is for those who have been there.
     
  18. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,795
    I think, when you have a very deep faith in an ideology, whether it's religious or political, you begin to operate from an altered state of conciousness-your whole state of mind is focused within a very defined sphere of intellectual process.
    So, it is no wonder that a person who is in this state of being will actually have a hard time associating with people who do not share their zealous euphoria unless they can convince them to 'join the party', so to speak.

    The only time ever, that I allowed myself to be sucked into an ideology it happened to be Pentecostal/Charismatic Christianity.
    I was zealous and I witnessed at every opportunity and I especially wanted my non Christian friends to join me.
    The change in me was subtle but quite dramatic to those that knew me and they weren't convinced by my patronising attitude as I pompously warned them that unless they could let Jesus into their hearts, I wouldn't be able to be their close friend anymore!!
    One of them I even accused of having an evil spirit, because he was ridiculing the bible and Christianity.
    I'd brainwashed myself so much through faith and zealousness that I began to see non Christians as vessels of sinful spirits, rather than old buddies or ordinary people.

    This, I'm afraid is what's happening to your Christian friends Flash.
    Forgive them, for they know not, what they are doing.

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  19. ilgwamh Fallen Angel Registered Senior Member

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    317
    H-kon
    Your personal experience fails to take into account billion Christians that you do not know.

    Vinnie

    Praise Jesus!!!
     
  20. H-kon Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    312
    The problem is Vinnie, that i do not have time to look up that person that doesn't behave that way. I almost became a christian myself, and i know several hundres of them since the time i played lead guitar in a christian band.

    I know enough Vinnie to say that this is the case pretty much all over, allthough i know there are some that doesn't behave that way.

    That was my experience among the protestants in Norway.

    I can't say my experiences are any different among the mormons that i know in Utah either.

    Instead of Vinnie telling me that not all are like that, i think someone christian better start cleaning up within your own organizations, the trust just isn't there from me.


    ------------------
    .Religion is for those who fear hell, Spirituality is for those who have been there.
     
  21. Christian Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    47
    Most of my friends are non-believers. I have lots of friends. They come to me when things really get bad and ask me to pray for them and to give them advice. The advice that I give them comes from my best friend, Jesus Christ.
     
  22. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,884
    Truestory ....

    I will ask you again:

    "What more than 100% do I need to see?"

    And, well, I have yet to get my cousin's husband to go to a T&A bar with me. His loss.

    Furthermore, what kind of "friend" threatens in the name of love ("You're gonna burn, man!")?

    So, yes, you say, "To hell with it," and wait for them to come to their senses. It doesn't mean they're not welcome when they stop acting like jackasses. But if they choose not to join me, fine. I should try it sometime: being as openly worried about a poor Christian who doesn't want to go to a T&A bar as he is when I don't go to church.

    I mean, the whole situation seems to put a strain on any potential for a genuine friendship.

    Part of it is that I just don't foresee evangelical intervention going out of style among modern American Christians.

    "Actively sinning by not agreeing with their assessment of God's will." So ... you still hold your whole family in active sin by that standard? It's called "Dysfunctional." Seek help.

    --Tiassa

    ------------------
    Take a side you say, it's black and gray. And all the hunters take the hunted merrily out to play. We are one, you say, but who are you? You're all too busy reaping in the things you never sown. And this beast must go on and on and on .... Nobody gives a damn. (Floater; "Beast")
     
  23. truestory Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,122
    Like I said, tiassa, those are your experiences. You "think" you know me because I am a Christian and you identify me with people like your cousin's husband. That is your prejudice speaking.

    In reality, my experiences with family members go more like this... When my sister-in-law asked me to go with her and her friends from work to a "ladies night out" to see male strippers, I said "No thank you." When this same sister-in-law later came to me, broken and feeling hateful and alone in the world because she found out that her mother, who she trusted most in the world, had lied to her her entire life, telling her that her father had died when she was an infant when, in fact, he was really alive, I was able to draw on the love of Jesus Christ to help us all work out and understand the forces which guided her mother to participate in the great lie and to help mend the fences between mother, daughter and father. Later, when this same sister-in-law asked me to attend "church" with her, I did. Later, when this same sister-in-law divorced my brother and the majority of my family (most of whom are not Christian) divorced themselves from her because of it, my brother understands that it is the Spirit of Jesus Christ which allows me to continue to love her just the same and to remain friends with her to this day, regardless of the fact that I consider her divorce from him to be a sin in the eyes of God.

    Through the Spirit of Jesus Christ, tiassa, I have knowledge of the fact that we are all sinners. Through the same Spirit, I have the ability to love people, including myself, with full knowledge that we are all sinners and that we are all worthy of the love of Jesus Christ. Now, if that makes me a dysfunctional jackass in your eyes or in the eyes of any other human being, then, so be it. Your acceptance or rejectance of me as an individual cannot either help or harm my spirit and neither will cause me to love you any more or less as a child of God.

    My prayer for you is that the peace, joy and love of Jesus Christ be with you soon and that it remain with you thereafter.


    [This message has been edited by truestory (edited January 16, 2000).]
     

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