Christians - Your Testimonies Please

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by c20H25N3o, May 20, 2004.

  1. Katazia Black Mamba Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    743
    DoctorNo,

    And all the allied countries in WWII didn’t kill millions of Germans and Japanese to defend their particular perspective for their way of life?

    Do I not have a right to self-defense?

    Kat
     
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  3. Katazia Black Mamba Registered Senior Member

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    743
    C20,

    Nice post, and the first part was a really good summary, although the sarcasm was creeping in their a bit at the end, right?

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    But there is still a major difference between what I want and hope and what I suspect will happen based on my knowledge of technology, and whether it will actually happen. I simply cannot accurately predict the future and there are no guarantees.

    We still have a massive stockpile of nuclear weapons that have enough power to kill everyone on the planet 30 times over. And the religious terrorists in the world who believe real rewards come after death seem just mad enough to destroy the world. That I honestly find really quite terrifying.

    The religionist though thinks there is a guarantee and that there is nothing left to do but wait and die and go through that magical gate to a better eternal life. It seems to me like the ultimate self-delusion.

    Take care
    Kat
     
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  5. Hathor Banned Banned

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  7. Hathor Banned Banned

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    a casual take on this leaves me impressed. perhaps the twain shall meet afterall

    from here
     
  8. SkippingStones splunk! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    231
    I work at the deli in a local Pennsylvania supermarket. We provide lunch meat, cheese, fried chicken and an occasional pizza. I usually work the evening shift from 3pm to 10pm with one or two other employees.


    So at work the other day, my 22 year old co-worker who was a high school dropout, asked me about college. After a bit he asked, “So, did you meet any girls there?”
    Dreading where this was going I answered, “Yes.”
    He got a cheeky look on his face and asked, “Did you go to any parties?”
    I knew what he meant and I should have said no right away but I didn’t.
    I answered, “Yes.”
    We were interrupted at this point by a customer or two and I dropped the conversation.
    It must have landed on his toe or something because he came after me.
    “Did you get it on?”
    Autopilot kicked in at this point, “What?”
    “You know, did you…” he shook his hands around in cryptic gestures.
    “Did I what?” Oh, such a fool am I, unconsciously taking the ‘Fuh fuh fuh, you don’t speak English articulately so I’m gonna be a smartass fuh fuh fuh’ route.
    Thankfully, my senses kicked in at this point and I thought of a somewhat intelligent way to end this.
    “I’m a Mennonite.”
    “A what?” he was thoroughly derailed.
    “My religion, I’m a Mennonite, a Christian.”
    Comprehension dawned, “Oh, like the Amish?”
    Doh! “kinda.”
    “And Mennonites are strict? They teach that you’re supposed to save yourself for marriage?”
    Ahh, the end is in sight, “Yeah, I guess.”
    “Daaaammn”
    Then he nodded sagely and patted my shoulder, “That’s good man, that’s good. I’m a Christian you know, it may not seem like it but I am, I was baptized when I was little,” and it was over.

    Or so I thought. Later, as I was leaving, just as I was out the door, he turned and asked, “What about blow jobs?”
    I kept walking.

    WTF!

    Now, I am definitely not Mennonite or Christian theologically but I find value and importance in the moral and ethical teachings I recieved growing up in a Christian household, they just plain make sense (for the most part). You could call me a Cultural Christian I guess.
     
  9. c20H25N3o Shiny Heart of a Shiny Child Registered Senior Member

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    Hi,
    Yes you picked up my sarcasm (naughty boy that I am) however it was really tongue in cheek, no malice I promise

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    It has taken me this many posts to understand your point of view almost competely

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    I guess what I am trying to say is neither of us can 'prove' that our chosen path to immortality is the right one. We just have our own beliefs based upon what we have read or seen or had personal experience of. That doesnt mean that we shouldnt show respect when others views are presented even if we dont agree with them personally. We do however have the right to offer an alternate view to the one being presented but it should always be in such a way as to let people make a choice without feeling intimidated one way or tother.

    ^^^ That was a lesson to me

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    That is what I have learnt through our interaction. I must be respectful to you and your views. I must not just dismiss what you are saying out of hand. Having read the things that you have read ( although not in so much detail I guess) I understand what it is you desire and how you think you will achieve it. I still have my own views of course but you are pleased that I took the time to investigate and have said so.
    I have learnt that if one's way is right we neednt be afraid of others views because at the end of the day they are just 'views'. We should embrace the views of others, not so that we might be changed directly by them ( although we might) but that at the very least we may have a better understanding of our fellow man.

    peace

    c20
     
  10. DoctorNO Ultra Electro Agnostic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    719
    Their actions are fully justified as self defense. For they were actually attacked and their people killed, invaded, & plundered.

    What you imply however is defense by offense. Eliminating the religionists for not cooperating or interfering with your plans. Killing people for getting in your way. You need a little humility in your life, Kat. Your overconfidence in your wishful ability to kill without mercy would make you a rotten person. A lonely person. You may even become dangerous to your society.

    I wish you well.

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  11. Katazia Black Mamba Registered Senior Member

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    Hathor,

    Interesting article - thanks.

    Kat
     
  12. Katazia Black Mamba Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    743
    DoctorNo,

    So their survival was threatened, right? And I am different, how? If the Christian Taliban really did make more significant inroads into US and other governments, then I am sure there would many more like me very willing to start an armed rebellion if that was our only choice.

    Are you sure? That isn’t what I have said though. But even so, the nuclear bombs dropped on Japan killed several hundred thousand people and almost certainly shortened the war and prevented far greater numbers being killed. This is legitimate defense by offense. And the best strategists advocate that the best defense is a proactive offense. If you know you are going to be attacked why wait around for it to happen? But I haven’t said that.

    Not quite – what I said was “If you indeed get in my way then I would have no hesitation to kill to protect my survival.”

    So the full quote includes a reference to survival. This is justifiable self defense.

    Perhaps if that was my first choice rather than my last resort. In a moment of crisis quite often he who hesitates will be lost. It is not overconfidence but simple forward planning given certain circumstances.

    LOL, clearly you do not know anything about me, so even your opinions are ill-informed.

    Just don’t get in my way though.

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    Kat
     
  13. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    19,125
    C20

    I'm responding to this thread from your link in another thread.

    “I had no sense whatsoever. I had also started getting into class A drugs…
    I had to quit my job and get help. Psychiatrists did my head in as they all seemed intellectually inferior to me.”


    Is this really a fair statement to make after just admitting having no sense whatsoever? Are you saying that your rational judgment was least affected by the use of class A drugs? In moving forward, can we agree that your ability to judge your conduct is'nt rational?

    it was the crippling depression that upset my parents most.

    So, we’ve established you’re on hard drugs and totally depressed.

    Now me mum worked with a woman who belonged to a Christian Worship Group and this woman had become a bit of a shoulder to cry on.

    The woman betrays your mums trust and now sees you as an easy mark for recruitment.

    I was like ' Well thats just what I fucking need isnt it. A bunch of God Botherers telling me I need Jesus etc. Fucking A-Holes!!!'

    The rational mind speaks, although perhaps, with too much bravado. But at least you’ve managed to work it out.

    I had been brought up not to cause your parents shame and so I went along with it.

    It’s truly amazing the influence parents have, regardless of whether or not you consider them human and apt to be wrong at times.

    In my mind I'm thinking 'OK lads you had credibility up till that point ... now why dont you fuck off and leave me to my spliff and techno tunes!'

    So, are you looking for help or not?

    How many people look you in the eye when they are talking to you?

    They all do, unless they’re looking somewhere else.

    Trust me I am very discerning and if this guy didnt look like he was being str8 up with me, I coulda pulled an excuse outta nowhere in a hot flash.

    A good recruiter must possess the ability to know what they’re doing if they are to be successful, which includes making you believe he’s genuine. Have you never been visited by a vacuum salesman?

    I'm starting to feel like a trapped animal and have to keep reminding myself that this will end, has to end. I will be back in my bedroom smoking a fatty and listening to tunes and this will be over.

    Again, are you actually interested in finding solutions or not? It seems like you’re just not ready to accept help yet?

    If you read the following and think I am making it up I wouldnt blame you. If I were you I would think 'Yeah interesting anecdote .. next...', however the following is my own testimony of what happened.

    And that’s the crux of the apostrophe, don’t ya think? I mean, at this point, you’re already setting up your argument for failure by allowing caveats.

    I fell backwards. At this point no one had touched me. The two guys either side of me ceased to exist for all intents and purposes except I could still hear them softly.

    You fainted.

    This invisible cloak that had wrapped itself around me caused me to feel very strongly that I was being cleansed by blood. Not blood as I guess most would understand it but a river of blood that washed away the badness that had allowed the darkness to get a foothold.

    I would agree with you as having felt that way when I fainted from getting too much sun.

    It kind of hangs around you that 'messed' feeling almost haunting at times. All of that disappeared and I felt like I could 'see' again for the first time.
    I felt soooo clean. Right through my inner being, the very core of me had been cleansed.


    So, after having just fainted, you believed a Devine cleansing took place as opposed to the natural sensations felt while recovering from a fainting spell?

    The depression had been lifted. The impatience, the cynicism all gone. I smiled at the blokes and said thanks to them. I was bursting with questions to ask them but all I could blurt out was [sic] 'Iiiiii've bbbbbeen washed in blood'. They seemed to understand perfectly what I was saying like it was nothing out of the ordinary and they told me ' I was very blessed' and the Lord had told them that He had revealed His nature to me.

    You saw no gods, you heard no gods, yet you convinced yourself god had revealed himself to you in the form of a black out, most likely caused as a result of your lavish lifestyle.

    Again, as with all theists’ descriptions of their revelations one is left to fill in the blanks as to the connection between a physical state of the human body and god revealed.

    . I swear, I laugh, I grow cannabis.

    Yes, the problems have not magically disappeared and you’re no closer to solving them than before. You’ve simply replaced one problem with delusion and fantasy. In fact, you’re much worse off now because you’ve got to deal with that problem as well.

    And you may very well find that if you actually deal with your addictions and find real solutions to your problems, you won’t need to carry the extra baggage of delusion and fantasy.

    Good luck with that.
     
  14. Nisus by peace he shall destroy many Registered Senior Member

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    470
    Awesome testimony C20, the Spirit bears witness with mine. You're very blessed! Thanks for sharing.
     
  15. Einstuck Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    169
    Essentially we have a story of a person who misrepresented himself as a 'Mennonite/Amish Christian' in order to avoid an uncomfortable conversation. The other person went away, believing he had an actual honest exchange with a spiritual Christian, receiving a certain clear but entirely false impression and understanding of Christian philosophy, behaviour and action.

    "I guess I'm a cultural Christian" is more like, "I guess I'm a liar and a fraud.".

    Here however, in an anonymous forum you are able to 'come clean' in a worthless confession without repentance. Shucks. I guess you should be praised and commended for your honesty. Your standards are certainly higher than that of agnostics and atheists. I think we can squeeze you into heaven....not.

    No wonder agnostics and atheists have such a bad impression of Christians.
    They've actually for the most part been talking to each other, acting out hypocritical role-playing after the 'D&D' initiation to deception and fraud.

    This should be filed along with the "I'm a Christian, but hey, I grow a little herb." testimony.

    "One cross each, form a line to the left." (Life of Brian)
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2005
  16. stretched a junkie's broken promise Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,244
    Quote Q:
    "And you may very well find that if you actually deal with your addictions and find real solutions to your problems, you won’t need to carry the extra baggage of delusion and fantasy."

    * With respect, what do you consider "real solutions"?
     
  17. Einstuck Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    169
    "real solutions" outside of the true conversion that spiritual experience and growth can bring would probably be "dealing, to support your habits".
     
  18. c20H25N3o Shiny Heart of a Shiny Child Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,017
    I actually quit everything including cigarettes after my conversion but this was an automatic response to try and pay something back for the wonder I had been shown. This was probably a bad idea as after 6 weeks I was in as much of a mess as I was pre-conversion. I was at a christian meeting and was really distant and suffering and somebody came up to me and said, 'did you give up cigarettes when you were converted?' I told them that I had. They pulled a cigarette from their pocket and gave it to me. They said that I ought not worry about it. I took the cigarette, smoked it and felt fine again. However all the class A drugs (which were all non addictive) I did not go back to as well as the class c drug cannabis.

    I started smoking cannabis again after I was hit by a cop car who was chasing thieves. I was stationary, the cop car was travelling at 160kph. I have roughly 2lbs of scar tissues inside my back along my spine as well as problems with my hip and right leg. A physiotherapist tried to break down the scar tissue but in truth there was little they could do.

    I am very badly allergic to prescription painkillers. Somebody reminded me that cannabis has very good pain relieving qualities if the grade is good. But cannabis is very expensive even though street grade cannabis is not really of a medicinal grade and the people that sell it also sell crack,speed, acid and so on. I didn't want to get involved with those people again. So I tried growing my own a few years ago from quality seeds with a medicinal heritage. The results were fantastic. I obviously dont smoke whilst I am at work, however to have some relief from the back pain when I am at home is very welcome. It doesn't affect my mind as it did when mixed with a whole bunch of chemicals. It just relieves the pain allowing me to focus on having fun with my kids and doing normal things without grimacing all the time. I thank God for it.

    My conscience is clear on the matter, which is why I can talk about it openly.

    peace

    c20
     
  19. c20H25N3o Shiny Heart of a Shiny Child Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,017
    (Q): I'm responding to this thread from your link in another thread.

    c20:“I had no sense whatsoever. I had also started getting into class A drugs…
    I had to quit my job and get help. Psychiatrists did my head in as they all seemed intellectually inferior to me.”


    (Q):Is this really a fair statement to make after just admitting having no sense whatsoever? Are you saying that your rational judgment was least affected by the use of class A drugs? In moving forward, can we agree that your ability to judge your conduct is'nt rational?

    My ability to focus on the 'wake,work,play die' cycle was seriously impeded. There had to be more to it than that. It was the large hole that couldn't be filled by having a good job,money,nice girlfriend and a nice car, that made me depressed. When I boiled it all down, none of these things made me happy. Using ecstacy and acid was a way of escaping the mundane and whilst it worked for the 6-7 hours, it only left me feeling more depressed afterwards. 'Rational' is a very subjective term. I was rationalising with my situation all the time, hence the depression.

    c20: it was the crippling depression that upset my parents most.

    So, we’ve established you’re on hard drugs and totally depressed.

    Not addictive drugs. Just mind expanding drugs. I would never have touched heroin, crack, barbituates etc etc. I wanted enlightenment, not a crippling addiction. And yes I was horribly depressed.

    c20: Now me mum worked with a woman who belonged to a Christian Worship Group and this woman had become a bit of a shoulder to cry on.

    (Q):The woman betrays your mums trust and now sees you as an easy mark for recruitment.

    That's very cynical of you. Actually, the woman offered the only thing she had, a phone number of someone who had gone through what I had gone through and who had come out the other side. The fact that they were Christians was probably incidental in my mums mind.

    c20: I was like ' Well thats just what I fucking need isnt it. A bunch of God Botherers telling me I need Jesus etc. Fucking A-Holes!!!'

    (Q):The rational mind speaks, although perhaps, with too much bravado. But at least you’ve managed to work it out.

    I hadn't worked anything out. It was all very well me rebelling against this help that was being offered but I had no superior alternatives to go to.

    c20: I had been brought up not to cause your parents shame and so I went along with it.

    (Q):It’s truly amazing the influence parents have, regardless of whether or not you consider them human and apt to be wrong at times.

    My parent's loved me and could offer no help of their own. They had no experience with drugs and were happy that someone who did and who had come out the other side, might come and speak with me and connect with me and help me to see that drugs were not the answer.

    c20: In my mind I'm thinking 'OK lads you had credibility up till that point ... now why dont you fuck off and leave me to my spliff and techno tunes!'

    (Q):So, are you looking for help or not?

    I was too arrogant to think I needed human help. I thought I had probably opened my eyes to many things through experimenting with hallucinogens and yet I knew that even that didn't hold the answers I sought.

    c20: How many people look you in the eye when they are talking to you?

    (Q): They all do, unless they’re looking somewhere else.

    Actually this is not my experience. If people are talking to you and they are trying to sound clever but have no real understanding of the subject matter, then they tend to avoid eye contact so you don't expose their pride. People with only selfless intentions will look you in the eye to make sure you can see how genuine they are.

    c20: Trust me I am very discerning and if this guy didnt look like he was being str8 up with me, I coulda pulled an excuse outta nowhere in a hot flash.

    (Q): A good recruiter must possess the ability to know what they’re doing if they are to be successful, which includes making you believe he’s genuine. Have you never been visited by a vacuum salesman?

    Yes, I have been visited by a vacuum salesman. They are trained to look you in the eye. They do it because they want commision. The christian that visited my house came a long way on his own petrol, took me a long way to the meeting place and brought me home again wanting nothing from me personally at all.

    c20: I'm starting to feel like a trapped animal and have to keep reminding myself that this will end, has to end. I will be back in my bedroom smoking a fatty and listening to tunes and this will be over.

    (Q):Again, are you actually interested in finding solutions or not? It seems like you’re just not ready to accept help yet?

    I was still interested in finding an all encompassing solution but it did not appear evident at the christian meeting place. Everyone else seemed happy. Fine for them. As for me (at that time) it meant nothing.

    c20: If you read the following and think I am making it up I wouldnt blame you. If I were you I would think 'Yeah interesting anecdote .. next...', however the following is my own testimony of what happened.

    (Q):And that’s the crux of the apostrophe, don’t ya think? I mean, at this point, you’re already setting up your argument for failure by allowing caveats.

    Actually I was trying to point out that prior to my conversion I was not seeking God. That the idea that God could fill this great gaping chasm was not something I had considered. I am just trying to be honest really. I could have left out many true parts of this story to prevent myself having to answer (justify) it later but I figured that the truth is the truth is the truth and I am not ashamed of the truth.

    c20: I fell backwards. At this point no one had touched me. The two guys either side of me ceased to exist for all intents and purposes except I could still hear them softly.

    (Q):You fainted.

    Haha. I didn't faint. I was intensely conscious the whole time. Almost hyper conscious. When I have fainted in the past, a white flash has come across my eyes and my consciousness has been lost. The two experiences couldn't have been more different.

    c20: This invisible cloak that had wrapped itself around me caused me to feel very strongly that I was being cleansed by blood. Not blood as I guess most would understand it but a river of blood that washed away the badness that had allowed the darkness to get a foothold.

    (Q):I would agree with you as having felt that way when I fainted from getting too much sun.

    If you have got too much sun, then that is a bad thing, you feel weird and you faint. My inner witness at that time had never been more alert. Spiritually I had just been born.

    c20: It kind of hangs around you that 'messed' feeling almost haunting at times. All of that disappeared and I felt like I could 'see' again for the first time.
    I felt soooo clean. Right through my inner being, the very core of me had been cleansed.


    (Q):So, after having just fainted, you believed a Devine cleansing took place as opposed to the natural sensations felt while recovering from a fainting spell?

    I know the difference between fainting and what I experienced. Like I say I was acutely aware the whole time and the experience was magnificent. Very very different from any drug high I had ever experienced. It was a very pure, lovely thing.

    c20: The depression had been lifted. The impatience, the cynicism all gone. I smiled at the blokes and said thanks to them. I was bursting with questions to ask them but all I could blurt out was [sic] 'Iiiiii've bbbbbeen washed in blood'. They seemed to understand perfectly what I was saying like it was nothing out of the ordinary and they told me ' I was very blessed' and the Lord had told them that He had revealed His nature to me.

    (Q):You saw no gods, you heard no gods, yet you convinced yourself god had revealed himself to you in the form of a black out, most likely caused as a result of your lavish lifestyle.

    My inner ear heard God, my inner witness, witnessed God. I did not black out as you keep insisting. The experience was very different to any drug high.

    (Q):Again, as with all theists’ descriptions of their revelations one is left to fill in the blanks as to the connection between a physical state of the human body and god revealed.

    I tell you I did not faint and that the experience was unique and pure. I am a totally different person since that day. The hole that I needed to fill disappeared. I am no longer searching for immortality so to speak.

    c20: . I swear, I laugh, I grow cannabis.

    (Q): Yes, the problems have not magically disappeared and you’re no closer to solving them than before. You’ve simply replaced one problem with delusion and fantasy. In fact, you’re much worse off now because you’ve got to deal with that problem as well.

    What problems? A messed up back that a little herb relieves in the absence of prescription medicines? Through hard work, perseverance and prayer I have rebuilt my once shattered life. I have never been more content.

    (Q): And you may very well find that if you actually deal with your addictions and find real solutions to your problems, you won’t need to carry the extra baggage of delusion and fantasy.

    Well I am addicted to cigarettes but that's not too much of a problem. I believe someone is buying me a vaporiser for Christmas so I will no longer have to smoke the herb but can vaporise it instead which will be better for my lungs. Maybe one day I will look to give up cigarettes again but not just yet.

    (Q):Good luck with that.

    Well if I do manage to give up cigarettes I shall thank you for your kind wishes

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    peace

    c20
     
  20. Einstuck Registered Senior Member

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    169
    Rather than stand by, and watch you remain in this bondage, allow me to tell you of my experience:
    When I was very young 14-19 I was exposed to Christianity through various sincere but diverse people and groups. In the end I stubbornly investigated for myself and became a 'Born Again/Baptist'. I was immediately delivered from an almost ten year smoking habit 'cold turkey', with no problems.

    Although enthusiastic however, my lack of solid foundation made me susceptable to a 'backsliding lapse' due to heavy stresses and intense cultural (advertisements/incitements) and peer pressure. I began to smoke again, actually emboldened by my easy experience in quitting, and the obvious oral fixation/pleasure rush of the cocaine-like addictive drug (cigarettes).

    Now I was the most unhappy Christian of all. I could not really associate with my Christian friends, because I was ashamed, and my former friends/acquantances were worthless except as co-dependants and enablers, leaving me hopelessly trapped in a self-loathing rut.

    I was actually afraid and too embarrassed to even pray to God to help me again, since I had done it once already, and then relapsed so easily, selfishly,and stupidly. Like Adam in the Garden when God called, "What's up?" I was engaging in procrastination and 'hiding' behaviour.

    Finally, I realized I was like the lepers outside the city under siege. I had nowhere to go but up! and like the disciples, I had nowhere to turn but to Jesus. With the pessimism of Thomas I went back to the Big Guy and asked again.

    In my mind, two simple questions seemed to be handed to me from above to ponder: I cannot quite describe this 'gift'. I wasn't pressured or pushed into any action at all. Instead, like a fool or wiseman who finds just ONE proverb a lifetime of study and practise, I wandered off with question one:

    (1) Do I really want to quit? There was something inside me that knew that any real result that had stability would be based upon the answer to this question. So I wandered about asking this question to myself secretly in a quiet and relaxed way, everytime I bought a pack, lit a match, sat down and took out a smoke, or had someone offer me one or mooch one off me. I truly didn't know the answer. Then after about a month of simply pondering without any push or effort one way or another, a switch seemed to be thrown inside me, and a light went on: Of course I wanted to quit. I hated this slavery, and crippling dependancy. I was overjoyed, just knowing the answer to the question. I almost felt like celebrating over this.

    Then there was a real pause in my life: Like a mini-version of the 'Silence in Heaven for an hour' in Revelation, I felt like I stood at the edge of a cliff: And the Second Question slowly marched its way in and took the center stage.

    (2) Can I quit? And this question was the scarey one. I had the shakes thinking about it. Again, I had no strategy other than to just walk around with this new 'friend'. We didn't talk much. I realised it was a multilayered question, (a) Can I quit? - meaning physically can I carry out whatever is required, and (b) Can I quit? - meaning Do I have permission to quit from God? - after screwing up so badly the first time? The most frightening part. Anyway, my new friend, Question Two and I went everywhere together, and all I could do was just stare at him. I would often talk to him alot over coffee, but he was always the same. This went on for another month or so without any change, just like my adventure with Question One.

    Then "DING!" I received the okay: I knew the answer! Of course I can! My heart truly skipped a beat, and I danced around and celebrated. I quit 'cold turkey' again, and went through a week of 'hell', then a month of 'little hell', then a six month period of 'break your stupid habits hell', like pawing for my non-existant cigarettes absentmindedly in my chest pocket.

    But this time it was actually easier in some way, even though it was alot harder physically. I had been through it all before, and there was no fear or uncertainty whatever in what was to come, or whether I could step through the steps: my footprints were already in the snow.

    I didn't get the same supernatural help I did the first time as a 'born-again kid Christian', but instead it was a hard, careful walk toward the road I knew I was actually supposed to be on. This time, I was learning a whole different set of lessons, starting with humiliation and humility,

    ...and it was good.

    And if you want to quit smoking, and be in a different place than where you are in your walk you can easily do it, and God will be on your side. I can't really help you quit smoking, but I can tell you that God can and wants to. He may have a totally different method for you, I don't know. But this is what happened to me.

    I hope it gives you hope and encouragement, whatever you and God decide to do.

    Peace, from a fellow ex-smoker.

    Remember,
    "Kissing a girl who smokes is like licking an ashtray."
    And I am sure you've already stooped to rolling disgusting butts from the ashtray and picking up half chewed smokes from the ground when you ran out...or you haven't hit bottom that hard yet. But you don't have to drive a car into a tree to figure out that is stupid. You can just watch someone else do it, once.
     
  21. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
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    There had to be more to it than that. It was the large hole that couldn't be filled by having a good job,money,nice girlfriend and a nice car, that made me depressed. And yes I was horribly depressed.

    Ok, so the problem was/is depression, which fueled the use of drugs. Of course, you're aware that using drugs is not the solution to your depression. Of course, neither is religion.

    That's very cynical of you.

    Perhaps, but that doesn't mean the woman didn't betray your mum - she did.

    It was all very well me rebelling against this help that was being offered but I had no superior alternatives to go to.

    But you never tried anything other than partying and drugs, so that is a very unfair statement. No, you haven't tried superior alternatives and perhaps you don't want to since you would much rather find an easy solution, religion. The problem with your depression has not been rectified, it still exists.

    My parent's loved me and could offer no help of their own.

    Or, most likely you weren't interested in their help since you probably felt you knew exactly what to do and no one was going to tell you otherwise.

    I was too arrogant to think I needed human help.

    Yes, I just said that.

    If people are talking to you and they are trying to sound clever but have no real understanding of the subject matter, then they tend to avoid eye contact so you don't expose their pride.

    Did it ever occur to you that you may have been hanging out with the wrong crowd, you were doing drugs, right?

    The christian that visited my house came a long way on his own petrol, took me a long way to the meeting place and brought me home again wanting nothing from me personally at all.[

    LOL, the Christian succeded while the vacuum salesman did not. The Christian DID get something from you; successful indoctrination, which was exactly his intention.

    Everyone else seemed happy. Fine for them. As for me (at that time) it meant nothing.

    Really, true happiness? Or the facade of blissful ignorance?

    I am just trying to be honest really.

    That is exactly what you keep telling yourself, and you have evidently convinced yourself of that. You haven't convinced me, of course, and that is something you probably could care less about. The point is that you're NOT being honest with yourself. You are living lies with both your depression and your religion. Double jeopardy!

    Haha. I didn't faint. I was intensely conscious the whole time. Almost hyper conscious.

    I suppose that will be the crux of your argument, the fact that you interpreted a physical condition to that of the devine. A huge error on your part.

    My inner witness at that time had never been more alert. Spiritually I had just been born.

    Again, that is a huge error in judgment on your part. For one thing, your lifestyle included hallucinagenic drugs and now you're trying to tell me you were alert? Balderdash! Secondly, your claim of spirituality is highly debatable considering spirituality cannot be shown to exist. You've been indoctrinated with religious buzzwords.

    Like I say I was acutely aware the whole time and the experience was magnificent. Very very different from any drug high I had ever experienced.

    Different perhaps, but still drug induced. Are you claiming that all the drugs you took, which were flowing through your blood somehow magically dissapeared and left you completely lucid and rational? Again, balderdash!

    My inner ear heard God, my inner witness, witnessed God.

    Voices in your head? Of course, you'll convince yourself that had nothing to do with your condition, right? How is it you knew it was god, what had you to compare the voices in your head to that of god? That is amazingly astute of you... on drugs.

    The hole that I needed to fill disappeared. I am no longer searching for immortality so to speak.

    So, there it is. You were looking for answers of immortality. A Christian, seeing an easy mark, offers it and you swallow it up, hook, line and sinker. You weren't looking for answers, you were looking for a religion. You should try and accept the fact that humans die and that we are not immortal in any way other than what we do in life that is remembered by others.

    Through hard work, perseverance and prayer I have rebuilt my once shattered life. I have never been more content.

    Although hard work and perseverance will build a life, prayer will do nothing for you. You are "content" because you are enjoying your new found facade of immortality that has merely masked your depression - ignorance is bliss. A house of cards if I ever did see one.

    Well I am addicted to cigarettes but that's not too much of a problem.

    Of yes, tell that to the people who die of lung cancer. You're sense of rational in this case simply does not exist. You are completely deluded if you think an addiction to a narcotic is not a problem. We can further deduce that other ideals held by you are equally deluded, like religion.

    Well if I do manage to give up cigarettes I shall thank you for your kind wishes

    Physically, you are doing serious damage to yourself smoking cigarettes. Mentally, you are seriously damaging yourself with religion. Emotionally, you are hindered by your depression, which still exists since you've not dealt with the underlying issues.

    Don't thank me, thank yourself when you have dealt with all three.
     

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