Climate change Sea Ice Melt Glacia melt the developing science

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by RainbowSingularity, Jun 8, 2019.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    29,281
    In my news feed the tipping point most feared is a consequence of glacial acceleration from warm water intrusion under their current grounding - the overhead atmospheric temp melting is not as immediate a disaster.

    That tipping point is near, possibly crossed already, for several large ice sheets - including the Thwaites.
     
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  3. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    i want someone to drive a massive ice berg into one of the big citys and park it off the shore.

    people would helicopter on to it to fill up their whisky glasses.
     
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  5. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    and
    that is your scientific opinion as/re climate change?
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Nope. Right wingers complaining is pretty much a constant; more an observation than an opinion.
     
  8. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    but
    what you're doing ain't complaining?
    ...................
    It seems that most attempts at conversations about climate turn political-----------and usually in a derogatory way, which seems anathema to having an open conversation about the science.
     
  9. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    Tiny hands do the Devils work
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The current CO2 boost is almost entirely a political issue - as is waste treatment in an industrial civilization generally.
    The scientists have been having an open conversation about the science off and on for fifty years - the current political attempts to shut that down in the US are probably the most important issues a forum like this has available.
     
  11. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    politics is just a tool for making more
    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    It seems to be cheaper to invest in manipulating politicians than in manipulating science.
    .....................
    coincidentally
    BP is investing in ethanol
     
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  12. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    Glacial calving, largest ever filmed
     
  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    16,274
    Definitely agreed! As proof, note that all those oil and coal dollars have managed to manipulate about 50% of all US politicians, but only about 3% of US scientists.
    Not a big fan of corn based ethanol.
     
  14. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    the irony of the "market shall provide" nutters
    wall st mono crop price gouging as bio-fuel comes online as the entire supermarket isle devoted to mono crop cereals takes a bit of a hit.
    cereal companys start soft selling social moral panic as bio-fuel companys leverage the price of consumer cereal corn stocks as un afforadble, as wall st _(w)ankers leverage the prices to collapse the market into hyper inflation
     
  15. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    6,238
    as/re
    Brazil-sugarcane
     
  16. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    3,849
    once all that nasty rain Forrest is burnt to the ground they will have lots of sugar cane.
    though im wondering what is happening to all the soya now there is no pigs left to eat it
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    It's more likely be more effective in general than cheaper. A politician can not only squash unwanted science, but guide the money to preferred recipients. And then the next day cut taxes. Tax cuts and deregulation are the goal after all - removing impediments such as research is only part of the means.

    Meanwhile, the Republicans have found that some forms of manipulating science are not only free, but return money or power: defunding science they don't like, screwing around with the management of research agencies and facilities, neglecting oversight of subsidized and privately contracted research, and so forth.

    Simply harassing and impeding top tier scientists until they quit can save a pile of dough - they can be replaced with people owed favors for their political campaign efforts, or nobody at all, and not only their salaries but much of the money they were using for objectionable research and paying associates and so forth can be redistributed.

    This of course "saves money" only if output is ignored - the screwed up agencies and infrastructure are providing less bang for the remaining bucks, wasting their sunk costs and what funding they receive - but if that is of no importance the lowering of total cost can be substantial.
     
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  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    An illustration of the Republican tactics mentioned above - just one example: https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a28662186/mick-mulvaney-agriculture-department/
    First, the situation - a matter that clearly would repay detailed research:
    That's the IPCC bureaucracy releasing a consensus and very conservative view,
    and here's an individual expert, filling in some details:
    Note: two independent sources, the IPCC international and politically involved and bureaucratic, the economics professor (although well known and well regarded) local and academic and personal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosamond_L._Naylor

    So: international, personal, what about a level in between - US government, the level directly responsible for managing national scale agricultural disasters?
    Our spokesmen are two high level Republican administration officials with direct responsibility for managing any such national level agricultural crises as are predicted above:
    Sonny Perdue, US Agriculture Secretary with a record of dodgy real estate ventures: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Perdue;
    Mick Mulvaney, Trump's confirmed Budget Director, acting Consumer Financial Protection Bureau director, acting Chief of Staff, Tea Party and Freedom Caucus guy with a record of dodgy real estate ventures (the Wiki has been tampered with - not inaccurately, but not appropriately):
    Climate Science, Republican style.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    29,281
    Environmental science, Republican style: https://www.pri.org/stories/2019-07...T-xUV1lV2WQm8zwFJR41IHf8zW1MEkgcUs0KvMHWQjl1g
     
  20. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    meanwhile
    Absent the $1.00/gallon tax credit for biodiesel, most US biofuel companies would not be profitable. Many producers are operating in the red now and have already closed or idled some production facilities due to low margins and low demand.
     
  21. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    I wonder
    given that the boreal forests are expanding northward,
    does their growth exceed the deforestation of the tropics?
    ................
    and
    Soybean Plastics
    The two major types of soybean-derived plastics are polyurethane products and polyester thermoset products. Soy polyols, made from soybean oil, are used to make toner, adhesives, sealants, coatings, newspaper ink, automobile panels and urethane foam, including rigid urethane foam insulation.
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,274
    Well, boreal forests are going away pretty rapidly. They may be replaced by deciduous forests and grasslands, but that may not trap as much CO2 - and the boreal forests are still likely to lose the race.

    =======
    Arctic’s Boreal Forests Burning At ‘Unprecedented’ Rate

    By Andrew Freedman

    They study, published Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, found that the boreal forests have not burned at today’s high rates for at least the past 10,000 years, and climate change projections show even more wildfire activity may be to come.

    The study links the increase in fire activity to increased temperatures and drier conditions in the region, which is driving wholescale changes in the massive forests that encircle the northern portion of the globe.
    ========

    The Future of the Boreal Forest

    NASA Earth Observatory


    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    Aug 20, 2002
    Sp what does the history of the boreal forest tell us about its future? Combining knowledge of forest history with future climate simulations, scientists are trying to predict what will happen to today’s forests if the Earth continues to warm at its present rate. . . .

    But as the boreal forest is gaining ground to the north, it will probably be losing ground in the south, as warmer temperatures speed up evaporation from the warming soil. If this happens, the low-moisture-requiring grasses from the prairies of southern Canada will begin to push northward, especially in the interior of the continent, and the losses to the boreal forest at the southern ecotone (transition between two biome types) are expected to exceed gains in the north.

    https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/BorealMigration/boreal_migration4.php
    https://www.climatecentral.org/news/arctics-boreal-forests-burning-at-unprecedented-rate-16278
     
  23. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    6,238
    2002?
    2003 20,000,000 hectares burned

    current year is much less than that at @ 12 million hectares

    so,
    suddenly this is news and
    ?

    Where, precisely, are the boreal forest burning this year?

    ........................
    In the early holocene, pollen from a wisconsin pond showed a transition from pine to oak forest in less than 100 years.
    Is a repeat likely?
    .................
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019

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