# Climate change Sea Ice Melt Glacia melt the developing science

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by RainbowSingularity, Jun 8, 2019.

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amen to that

3. ### iceauraValued Senior Member

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Do you remember the responses to the last few times you attempted that deflection? You waste more time on this crap - - - -

To repeat: Of course we may be in another superinterglacial. That would make AGW even more dangerous and damaging. All the natural cycles - the oscillations, the OD blips, the sunspots, all of them - are side issues of course, comparatively minor matters, but with a bit of bad luck they can add significantly to the harms and hazards of the CO2 boost.

AGW is predicted - and currently exceeding predictions - to have hit full force (and possibly even peaked) hundreds or thousands of years before the natural cycle of any superinterglacial has taken full effect. AGW is currently measured at ten times as fast as any measured global warming in the geological or paleontological record.

You have been reminded of that fact at least six times, in my posting alone.

5. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member

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current majority thinking by the predominant scientific minds is that the sea is possibly taking up the atmospheric heating which gives potential to sea temperature warming which could speed up ice sheet melting under glacial faces which in turn may be accelerating glacial calving and speeding up glaciers 6 times faster than they have previous been running at for ht last 10,000 years if not a great deal longer.
as the sea temperature warms it will accelerate ice sheet melting which exponentially speeds up ice melting.
currently there is study attempting to gain some science around the temperatures around glacial faces and ice sheets.

this is why there needs to be more cameras running on glacial faces measuring the calving rates.

more ice in the water may cool it a little... however the combined reduction in the over all ice sheet insulation by the ice sheets and glaciers may increase that speed faster than any melting ice.

one question around algae blooms becoming more wide spread may increase exponentially which may then absorb more heat into the water which in turn then heats the sea even more.

additionally, the arctic and antarctic sea life under the ice that helps feeds global fish stocks may be at risk from potential algae blooms as sea ice recedes

Last edited: Aug 20, 2019

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9. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member

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hopefully some private funders(the big players) can come in and fund these people before the government pull all funding on them which is almost guaranteed

10. ### billvonValued Senior Member

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Do you have any data/factual evidence on this? Or is that a guess? Because from the data I've seen, algal blooms in the water increase, rather than decrease, albedo. (On the ice, of course, it's a different story.)

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12. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member

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http://coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/image_galleries/markers.html

caltech ... i gues they know how to use a rock & a stick to draw on a cave wall ...
coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/image_galleries/markers.html
this is where you need a physicist to define the reactionary depth of solar radiation on Blue water Verses Surface floating Algae(the water is not green, the algae is green floating on top, or a fraction under the surface).
it seems to me very obvious that because Algae is far denser than Water, it would lose its depth reflection and suffer more single plain absorption based on its intensity and lack of ability to allow light and radiation to reflect back up through the surface water.
this as it amplify in heat would likely act as a radiation sink and start to attract more heat(bumping?) my physics & chemistry on dynamic radiation wave frequency properties and particle physics is pretty thin.

we need a (or biologist)physicist to answer this who is familiar with (physics)marine biology.

Caltech sunlight infrared absorption experiment based on basic colours

Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
13. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member

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Satellite data reveal how colorful algae are melting the Greenland ice sheet.

Source: Geophysical Research Letters
https://eos.org/research-spotlights/mapping-ice-algal-blooms-from-space

side note
medical research
how many people die from heart attacks ?
how many people suffer life long critical debilitating damage from blood clots ?

what if the new life that has been found in the glaciers living in solid ice may offer a step up to understanding how we can design anti clotting agents for heart patients |?

and we lose it all as the glaciers melt....
because all the governments pull all the funding from climate science .. ?
i would be completely ok with that only if those pulling the funding and the climate deniers were the ones suffering heart attacks and blood clots.

14. ### billvonValued Senior Member

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"surface accumulations of cyanobacteria (blue-green algae) are an example of a phenomenon that can be detected by increased reflectance (albedo), even using low- sensitivity satellite sensors."

https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/101/m101p001.pdf

15. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member

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reflectance (albedo),

albedo
being the method
reflectance
being the process of the method

what they found

they are saying that algae blooms increase the heating of the water by using albedo Reflectance ...

i may have miss understood what you meant
as it shows they detected increased sea heating because of the algae blooms
deeper absorption by particles which scatter the light remove their ability to use the aldebo method to measure the over all effect.
however they are clearly suggesting what is happening.

soo while they see it as general heating
which they then calibrate as depth Vs surface of the algae Vs other particles.

the aldebo reading suggests super heating by the algae where as blue is scattering the light giving them less to measure by aldebo

is that correct ?

16. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member

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Global Wild Fires at Record highs
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-49415973

SooT from Global wild fires landing on the glaciers and the ice shelfs makes them melt many many times faster.
because the soot attracts heat instead of the ice reflecting it the effect of warming is exponential

17. ### billvonValued Senior Member

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Well, increased albedo = more light reflected.

Water is dark, and absorbs a lot of heat. To put it another way, water's albedo is low - around 0.06. That means 94% of the light hitting it is absorbed, and only 6% of it is reflected, on average.

Snow is white, and reflects most light. Thus it does not absorb much heat. To put it another way, snow's albedo is high - around 0.7. That means 30% of the light hitting it is absorbed, and 70% of it is reflected, on average.

Algae is green. When you add it to dark water, it reflects more green light. That's why algae-filled water looks green. Since more light is being reflected, the albedo goes up - and the _overall_ heating of water is decreased, because less energy goes in, and more energy is reflected.

This study detected increased sea surface temperatures (SST's.) This is due to the reflectance - the reflected (green) light passes through the upper layers of water twice. However, overall there's less energy absorbed, so overall there's less heating of the water. The study does not explore deeper water temperatures, where cooling would be seen.

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19. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member

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my physics is extremely limited
what i am unsure of is, IS increased resistance created through increased heat? ... does increased heat also act as a method of resisting heat loss ?
increased heat algae increases the resistance to absorb heat ?
and reflect heat ?

i am not up to discussing the carbon cycle(Co2) of Algae blooms. it appears to be undocumented by the majority so not a calculable number.

interestingly enough ...
looks like the president of the amazon has joined the tin-foil hat society

https://www.bbc.com/news/video_and_...esident-jair-bolsonaro-suggests-ngos-to-blame

maybe he is selling tickets for the POTUS to get a cheap deal on some military weapons and then divide up Venezuelans oil or something equally pro-business orientated.

"may i have my guns now please sir" ?

Chimpanzees with automatics weapons riding horses in the tropics during a snow storm ...
nope ! no climate change here !

maybe maduro could put a rail line through Venezuela to a northern south America super sea port moving south american goods directly to the usa by sea.

Last edited: Aug 22, 2019

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21. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member

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Do you trust the captain/skipper/pilot/driver of the boat your on with your life and with your childrens lifes ?

22. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member

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Global Science(medicine) has a lot to lose by Brazil loosing its rain Forrest.

note not Human food & medical aid
just international funding of Forrest protection considering it seems there is no actual protection going on.

saving 1 hectare may be the plant that may help fight diabetes globally etc...
however, statistically when there is thousands of hectares being burned, why pay 10 million dollars to save 1 hectare when 100 hectares get burned for the price of a box of matches.
converting that money into fire fighting would seem a better way to save the Forrest.

FYI i did a bit of googling to try and find out how much international AID is given to Brazil each year..
however there does not appear to be any clear data.
which is kinda odd.
from one or two sources of national aid by 1 country it appears Brazil is likely to be receiving around $5,000,000,000.00 US$ per year in international aid from various countrys.

why not commit 5% of that to fighting Forrest fires ?
$250,000,000.00 US$ per year to firefighting would be very helpful

23. ### sculptorValued Senior Member

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I've read several claims that the Brazilian Amazon fires were set deliberately.