Colorado train passengers capture Bigfoot on video

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by Magical Realist, Oct 14, 2023.

  1. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    What is the freqency of "turned out to be" in this statement?

    What if zero witness reports of such events were confirmed as something? The statement would still be true, but utterly vacuous.

    Their logic is relying on the tally of a condition that may never have happened - for or against.

    That invalidates the argument.
     
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  3. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    It's Matt Moneymaker (seriously -- Moneymaker???), key crew member of the exploitive TV show "Finding Bigfoot". Presumably in a fashion similar to Travis S. Taylor on The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch.

    Even Pedals was mistaken for Bigfoot by some people, in the beginning.

    In terms of other sites or organizations who pre-conditionally want Bigfoot to be real, here's one that archived a newspaper article where a similarly pro-Bigfoot investigator INSTEAD acknowledged that many Bigfoot sightings do turn out to be bears (among other things).

    Bigfoot Reports in Kitsap County, Washington
    http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/kitsap.htm

    "When Patrick Julian heard Mills' story, he headed straight to Indianola to see for himself. Julian, who lives in Port Orchard, is a volunteer field investigator with a Bothell group called Bigfoot Central.

    Many Bigfoot reports turn out to be bears, stumps or humans, he said. But he could tell Mills' experience had the ring of truth.
    " ​

    Note again that the issue of bears excludes the countless staged sightings, fake videos and photographs, made-up stories and extravagant accounts where Bigfoot exhibits supernatural powers.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Data scientist suggests many Bigfoot sightings may be bear sightings
    https://phys.org/news/2023-01-scientist-bigfoot-sightings.html

    Bigfoot has a very simple explanation for some sightings: bears
    https://www.sciencealert.com/bigfoot-has-a-very-simple-explanation-scientist-says

    PAPER: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.01.14.524058v2

    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Map compares Bigfoot sightings vs black bear records
    https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/1389006815329980416?lang=en

    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Ironically, the older study below used Bigfoot observation data from Matt Moneymaker's organization for its correlation between black bear territories and Bigfoot sightings.

    PAPER (PDF): An alternative explanation to Bigfoot reports
    http://gis.humboldt.edu/Projects/GSP270_Samples/An alternative explanation to Bigfoot reports.pdf

    I used report data acquired from a paranormal database (BFRO.net) and Black bear range maps to analyze possible correlations between the location and abundance of sightings against population and range of bears. The analysis showed 96% of Bigfoot reports fell within Black bear range and counties, with zero to low sightings also contained no bears. Additionally annual fluctuations in Bigfoot sightings show a peak during summer and decline during winter months validating my hypothesis.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Supposed samples of Bigfoot include not only actually belonging to bears, but other animals and things.

    'Bigfoot' samples analyzed in lab
    https://www.science.org/content/article/bigfoot-samples-analyzed-lab

    In 2012, researchers at the University of Oxford in the United Kingdom and the Museum of Zoology in Lausanne, Switzerland, put out a call for hair samples thought to be from anomalous primates. They received 57 hairs from Bigfoot enthusiasts and museums...

    [...] Seven of the samples didn't yield enough DNA for identification. Of the 30 that were sequenced, all matched the exact 12S RNA sequences for known species, the team reports online today in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B. Ten hairs belonged to various bear species; four were from horses; four were from wolves or dogs; one was a perfect match to a human hair; and the others came from cows, raccoons, deer, and even a porcupine. Two samples, from India and Bhutan, matched polar bear 12S RNA—a surprising finding that Sykes is following up on to determine whether some Himalayan bears are hybrid species with polar bears.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2023
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  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    One minute of that show (posted elsewhere in this forum) was enough to satisfy me it is the worst kind if shite.

    They had a segment where the guys spent valuable screen time oohing and aahing while calculating the size and incredible speed of a UAP that flew by in background of their camera. It turned out to be a foreground bug.

    They are either honest and incompetent, or view-mongering fraudsters.

    That's a little harsh. It is, first and foremost, a TV show. They not doing science; they're doing entertainment.
     
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  7. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Excerpt from a good in depth interview with "Survivorman" Les Stroud on his new mission to explore the Bigfoot phenomenon and Dave Paulides' Missing 411 phenomenon. Totally credible and honest approach to this anomalous yet persistent phenomenon...
    ===============================================================
    http://bigfootbase.com/survivorman-bigfo...les-stroud

    Interviewer:"Is there any piece of evidence that the public hasn’t seen that has influenced you? Is there a video or maybe some audio that isn’t available that you have come across– maybe something from Todd outside of the Survivorman Bigfoot production– that kind of keeps you going on this topic? That kind of keeps the bait fresh, so-to-speak?

    LS: Ya, it would be the real-life stories from close friends who tell me of an experience, who want no notoriety, and they’re just sharing their story. I had a guy here this morning actually– it’s those. Because nobody has anything to gain or lose at that point. And they’re not being interviewed for a TV show. They’re not in to the subject matter. And they come along and they, out of the blue, they share with you, “Well as a matter of fact, ya know, I was comin’ home from school one time and la da da…” It’s those things. Because again, these are people who are friends with me regardless of anything. They’re not like new acquaintances who are hanging out with me because I’m Survivorman. These are friends. And so, when they tell me these stories, y’know, it leads me something that I’ve been kind of harping on lately.

    It’s a great question that leads to that, because I love this little thought of mine here. And that is that when you have somebody say to you, “I saw a Bigfoot”. Let’s establish that this is somebody that you trust. Someone that you respect. We’re going to go right there. You trust them. You respect them. And they say to you, “Last weekend from 15 feet away I saw a Bigfoot. Now you only have four places you can go with that. Number one is they’re delusional… suffering from a delusion. Number two is mistaken identity. It was a bear. But again, this is someone who’s very experienced in the bush, knows animals, and they’re saying they were 15 feet away from a Bigfoot. Number three is they’re lying. And number four, the final one, is they’re giving you an accurate representation of what they saw.

    So that’s a neat little compartmentalized way to react to somebody telling you I saw a Bigfoot. If you see it on YouTube, or you hear it on the radio or whatever. Ok but let me dig just a little bit deeper for a second, a friend of mine said that to me– a young guy that I know– he said oh yea this woman that I know she’s seen them twice and– here’s the catch — after he told me that he really adored this woman, she’s a really nice lady, she told me she saw them twice, he closes it off with– and this is probably going to be familiar to you– he closes it off with “ehh y’know eh I don’t know if they exist.” And when he does that I stop him immediately and go:

    “Hang on, hang on a second here. You’re not sure they exist?”

    “Yeaaaa, I don’t know, y’now?”

    “Ok, so then your friend… well, she’s a liar.”

    “Whoa, whoa no, she’s my friend.”

    “Oh no. She’s a liar, isn’t she? If you’re saying after the fact that you trust her, and she’s telling you from 15 feet away with her experienced woods eyes that she saw a Bigfoot, and you’re saying you still don’t know if they exist, is you’re saying that she’s a liar. I want you to tell me.” And I’ll do this, I will literally say, “I want you to say Nancy is a liar. You can’t say it? Then what are you saying?” You see where I’m going with this? Too often it’s easy for people to hear something, say it comes from their uncle who they love, who’s like a conservation officer, who’s like really intelligent and he says, “I’m telling you, I stood there and I watched it for a half an hour…” You will still go, “Ehhh I don’t knowwww. I don’t know if they exist.” I’m like, well ok go call up your uncle right now and I want you to tell him that he’s a liar. Because after that we’re left with either they’re delusional, we’ve already ruled out that they’ve made a mistake because of their experienced eyes, so you’re left with– and the delusional thing as far as I’m concerned is a cop-out. That’s not fair. You’re saying everybody’s delusional. Or it’s a mass conspiracy theory to hoax. That’s not fair. You’re left with only two things: they’re lying or they’re telling the truth. And if they’re telling you the truth, guess what that means: Bigfoot is there. You see what I’m saying?

    Interviewer: It’s a cultural denial, yea?

    LS: Ya, and I think my response that I gave you is the way to bring people down and say we’re sitting here, and one of these things is your good friend: delusional, mistaken, liar, or telling the truth, you tell me."
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2023
  8. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    16,771
    Bigfoot/light orbs account by Devon Massyn. Sasquatches are often sighted along with floating light orbs...

     
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Devon Massyn is a televison producer for the show.

    Because he stands to benefit from it, he obviously has an agenda, which is to - er - bunk Bigfoot and light orb accounts at any cost.
    Therefore we should automatically be suspicious of him, and can categorically dismiss anything he says as agenda-driven and, in doing so, reinforce our own worldview.

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  10. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Producer for what show?

    Here's what Devon Massyn, world wildlife photographer and filmmaker, really does:

    "Originally from South Africa, I am a natural history filmmaker and television producer based in Los Angeles, California. I’ve spent my life working with wildlife of every kind and feel most at home around dangerous animals in some of the most remote locations around the globe. Whether I am catching Nile crocodiles in South Africa, being chased by Bedouins while looking for lizards on the border of Syria, extracting venom from snakes in Costa Rica, or diving with Tiger Sharks in the Bahamas… Those are the moments when I feel alive.


    I specialize in making the impossible a reality. Designing rigs, braving the elements and outsmarting my subject are all part of the game. I operate high-speed camera systems like the Phantom and Photron, operate underwater and film with most ENG and DSLR formats. If it’s digital, has a record button and lens, I can master it. I somehow have the natural ability to interact with any wildlife I encounter… I use that to push the normal limits and get the shots that others cannot.


    My passion is the natural world… From something as delicate as an orchid to a creature as intimidating as a Great White or Black Mamba, I respect and care about them all. I’ve worked in the world of herpetology in many fields, assisting other researchers. Before the world of television, I could be found all over the world getting hands on with venomous snakes collecting DNA and venom samples for research. On the rare occasion that I have spare time, I still find myself driving to the middle of nowhere to find and learn about reptiles in the wild, helping researchers uncover the many mysteries left to discover.


    I love taking people along for the ride and getting the chance to introduce them to a world of wonders they wouldn’t normally experience. The Natural World as we know it is not going to be here for long… If I can immortalize it on film and give people a glimpse of the beautiful things that exist beyond their own borders, changing their minds into conserving what’s left...I will die happy."---- http://www.devonmassyn.com/home.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2023
  11. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    1,477
    https://staffmeup.com/profile/devonmassyn
    My bold above.
    Given that he also creates,( my bold in above quote) I suppose he also sells his productions to the media channels as well?

    Credits:

    Executive Producer (EP)Sharkfest
    National Geographic — TV — American Natural History Unit Details

    Executive Producer (EP) – Worlds Biggest Great White?
    National Geographic — TV — Spectrum Details
    Showrunner, shooter and writer .

    Camera Operator (Red Underwater) Shark Week - Mosnter Mako Perfect Predator
    Discovery — TV — Discovery Studios Details
    Host and camera operator filming sharks.

    Executive Producer (EP)Man v. Shark (Season 1)
    Nat Geo Wild — TV — Painless Productions Details
    Showrunner and underwater cinematographer.

    Executive Producer (EP) Dead By Dawn (Season 1)
    Nat Geo Wild — TV — Love Productions USA Details
    Executive Producer and cinematographer. Filming and running a 6 part blue chip international wildlife documentary series.

    Executive Producer (EP)The Lost Cage - Shark Week
    Discovery — TV — Gurney Productions Details
    Executive Producer, Writer, Underwater Camera Operator, Talent

    Supervising Producer – Return of Monster Mako - Shark Week
    Discovery — TV Details
    Supervising Producer, Writer, Underwater Camera Operator, Talent


    Supervising Producer – Shark Week 2016:Shallow Water Invasion
    Discovery — TV Details
    Supervising Producer, Writer, Underwater Camera Operator, Talent

    Another 16 credits on same link....
    https://staffmeup.com/profile/devonmassyn
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2023
  12. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    16,771
    I realize he's produced TV shows, but he did not produce the Bigfoot show that Dave accused him of. IOW, there was no monetary gain from sharing his light orb story with Les Stroud.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2023
  13. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    18,960
    Nor does West get direct monetary gain from his ideas.

    Yet all we need do is decide that he doesn't support our worldview and therefore has an agenda and therefore should be dismissed.

    Because logic!
     
  14. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Interview with Rodney Mitchell on Bigfoot encounters:

     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2023
  15. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I’m of the opinion that Big Foot is merely folklore. Described as some type of land animal, it doesn’t make sense that there haven’t been any reliable eyewitness testimony or peer reviewed work in the science community to support claims of BF’s existence. Lack of physical evidence, inconsistent descriptions, and no genetic evidence, all point to the unlikelihood that Big Foot exists. Not to mention, that Big Foot is typically reported by people living in highly populated areas, so I’m highly skeptical such a large creature could remain hidden from view for such a long time.

    I don’t really get the fascination over Big Foot, just seems obviously not true. At least with UFO’s, there’s an element of mystery.
     
    C C and Pinball1970 like this.
  16. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    16,771
    Over 3000 eyewitness reports, hundreds of footprint casts, and photo and video evidence all point to the real existence of Bigfoot. Hair samples have been collected that defy DNA identification with any known species:

    https://www.woodape.org/index.php/analysis-feces-and-hair/

    To dismiss it because it just feels to you too unbelievable is the fallacy of incredulity. Also Bigfoot is typically reported in sparsely populated areas, not highly populated areas:

    "Using data compiled by the Bigfoot Field Researchers Organization (yes, it exists), Penn State Ph.D. candidate Josh Stevens — who specializes in big data, maps and visualizations — geoplotted every Sasquatch sighting since 1921. Looking at reported sightings compared to population density, he found distinct, sparsely populated regions with regular sightings, and densely populated areas where sightings were rare.

    “You would expect sightings to be the most frequent in areas where there are a lot of people,” Stevens wrote about the project. “The desire to find, or think you saw, bigfoot might be especially high if you’ve heard tales of giant, ape-like creatures calling the place you’re in home. A combination of environment and legend likely combine to at least put wary outdoorsmen on the lookout.”

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/all-3313-sasquatch-sightings-mapped

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    So how do we know all these sightings of Bigfoot numbering in the thousands aren't really just cases of mistaken identity with a moose or a bear?

    There are so many accounts that involve multiple sensory experiences and attendant details that misperception is ruled out immediately. Many accounts of large rocks being thrown from bushes with grunting sounds. The smell of rotten eggs or sulfur. The banging on trees and distinctive howls in remote wooded areas far from humans. Light orbs at night. The footprints! 18 inch tracks showing massive weight in their depth and massive height in their length. Then there's the seeing of the bipedal form of the hairy hominid--very distinct from a bear or a deer in its silouette, stride and arm movements. And always gigantic--about 8 feet tall. The fact that these details recur again and again in different sightings by different people who aren't fruitcakes but capable hunters and rangers and hikers and country folk confirms that this is a real creature with typical traits and behavior patterns. Just review some of the sightings posted in this subforum. You will be convinced.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2023
  17. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Huh. That's almost a tenth the number of witnesses at The Miracle of Fatima.

    "...testimony from witnesses who said that they had seen extraordinary solar activity, such as the Sun appearing to "dance" or zig-zag in the sky, careen towards the Earth, or emit multicolored light and radiant colors..."

    I wonder how many witnesses have seen God part the Red Sea or burn a bush ...

    Gotta be real...
     
  18. Pinball1970 Valued Senior Member

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    1,047
    The scientific consensus is this

    Scientific view
    Expert consensus is that allegations of the existence of Bigfoot are not credible.[116] Belief in the existence of such a large, ape-like creature is more often attributed to hoaxes, confusion, or delusion rather than to sightings of a genuine creature.[19] In a 1996 USA Today article, Washington State zoologist John Crane said, "There is no such thing as Bigfoot. No data other than material that's clearly been fabricated has ever been presented."[38
     
  19. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Isn't the argument from consenus abit of the argument ad populum? IOW that a majority believe something to be true is the reason it is true.
     
  20. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Why has no one captured one or shot one with a tranquilizer gun? Even cheetahs, that have the ability to run 60+ mph, have been captured by hunters. So, Big Foot is faster than a cheetah? And why has no one stumbled upon a dead one in the past 70 years or so? Because they don’t exist, is the most logical conclusion. In the cases of eyewitness accounts, I just think they’re either lying, or just mistaking other animals for this creature. Sometimes, we see what we want to believe.

    I’m openminded about UAP’s and paranormal activity, but just not Big Foot.

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  21. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    No.

    Not only are scientific consensus and "belief" not equivalent; they are polar opposites.
     
  22. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I think most people are so awestruck when they see one that they don't even think of shooting it. Why kill something that is so incredibly unique and extraordinary? Would it even be considered moral to kill one? If they are close enough to humans it might be considered murder.

    Same reason we don't stumble upon dead humans. Maybe Bigfoot buries their dead..
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2023
  23. Pinball1970 Valued Senior Member

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    When you get scientific consensus today you have a certain amount of certainty, not 100% but what is?
    Scientific consensus is arrived at via the scientific method which is not the same as the general population and how they arrive at their conclusions.
     

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