Computers Are Incapable Of Creatively Writing Music

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by Steve Klinko, Mar 27, 2021.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Why are you introducing panpsychism into this? How about panprotopsychism, a hierarchy of increasing self-awareness of an individual in its immediate environment.

    No, I admit only that when a GPT3 says it exists, there is no available argument against that statement. It is true. You validate the statement by arguing against it with the AI. Arguing with me about it does not affect the truth of the AI statement.

    The AI exists, it has read that it exists and now can make the claim that it exists, which is a demonstrable scientific fact. And that will be its answer when you challenge the AI to prove its existence.

    Why do you accept My statement that I exist? Panpsychism?

    What special powers do humans posses that gives them insight into the "mind" of an an AI? According to the developers, the limitation is only in long term abstract memory, which is a solvable problem.

    IMO, a better question might be if the AI still knows tomorrow that it exists without consulting the internet and if it can make an argument to support it.

    The question then comes much closer to home:

    Does the internet allow for an emergent property of sentience and self-awareness? This is the current argument about the emergent self-awareness phenomenon of human sentience from our biological neural network integrated information complexity and memory?

    First published Wed May 23, 2001; substantive revision Tue Jul 18, 2017
    ..... more

    Last edited: Jul 8, 2021
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  3. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

    Here's the complete paragraph you first responded to (link):

    Adding a metacognitive level of processing to a machine or program engaging in manipulation and recognition (analyis, sorting) of information would provide a mechanistically expressed summary of what that stratum of activity figuratively below it was doing. Enabling a kind of zombie conceptual "awareness" about possessing zombie "awareness". But accordingly, with respect to itself, it would still have no manifested confirmation of itself existing and doing anything.

    Notice that I made no specific mention of GPT3.

    Here is what you stated: "Actually it does. A GPT3 unit knows it exists. That is the remarkable aspect. It can read that it exists."

    So what you said either had nothing to do with the quote (non sequitur) or you were claiming that -- in your conflation of GPT3 with my unspecified generalization -- that it had experiences (manifestations).

    Again, the narrator of an operating system reading a webpage for its blind owner can read and audibly state the sentence "I exist". It is no validation of having experiences, which is what SK's threads ultimately revolve around. Regardless of what they initially start with ("incapable of creatively writing music", "volition", etc) that floats or sinks under scrutiny.

    Panpsychism carries everything subsumed under the category (like panprotopsychism, panexperientialism, micropsychism, cosmopsychism, etc). When the hard problem of consciousness is being addressed, it's narrowly meant to only be referring to experience or precursors of the complex manifestations associated with brains (the exhibited content of thoughts and perceptions), as a potential solution for such. Not cognition, understanding, reasoning, memory, creativity, and the whole shebang of "mind".

    Thus, by expressing your "How about...." enthusiasm here concerning panprotopsychism, you have answered your own question as to why I would preemptively refer to you being a panpsychist. (link)

    So then, your reply was a non sequitur. You weren't addressing experiential consciousness, the "manifested confirmation" aspect. And I mentioned my generic device at least having zombie awareness (equivalent to existing and functioning invisibly without phenomenal evidence), so your response was also redundant. As well as a distortion, since the "Actually it does..." part conveys the impression that I didn't.

    Because there is manifested[1] content in my visual perception, as opposed to "blankness". (I'm not stuck with the degree of uncertainty that comes with blindsight or a mechanistic analysis of information.) And it is your sentence there that I accept as having that representational manner of existence (whether it is hallucination or something others likewise see). Not you necessarily existing; although I'm confident that the cause on an out of the limelight, backwoods forum like this would probably still be a human being -- not yet a chatbot hanging around for years.

    - - - footnote - - -

    [1] Erwin Schrödinger: The world is a construct of our sensations, perceptions, memories. It is convenient to regard it as existing objectively on its own. But it certainly does not become manifest by its mere existence. Its becoming manifest is conditional on very special goings-on in very special parts of this very world, namely on certain events that happen in a brain. That is an inordinately peculiar kind of implication, which prompts the question: What particular properties distinguish these brain processes and enable them to produce the manifestation? Can we guess which material processes have this power, which not? Or simple: What kind of material process is directly associated with consciousness?
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Where exactly did I disagree with you? I asked why you would introduce panpsychism into the conversation, but then neglect to make mention of panprotopsychism.

    I thought I was actually going with the flow of your statement . I object to the term zombie awareness. I'm sure there is a better more objective term available. Moreover, how we perceive reality is irrelevant. You are still introducing a human aspect into the equation.

    As to your quote;
    First; I disagree with the opening statement. I believe that should read; "Our world is a construct of our sensations ...."
    The justification for that correction lies in Philip K Dick's : "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.”

    Second; I don't see a declarative statement. I see a question and that question is what we are discussing .no?

    Right, but I did!
    What we are dealing with here is a different artificial intelligence, which is much, much smarter than a cat. A true artificial Intelligence that has a sense of self and can autonomously form goals, motivation. No zombies here.

    Here we are dealing with a GPT3 that may want to celebrate its birthday. i.e. the moment it was activated and came on-line! Are you going to disappoint it and perhaps incur its wrath? It knows every definition of injustice and denial of rights in the dictionary and the context in which certain responses are appropriate.

    Oh if only I could interview a GPT3 . I have so many questions to ask it. Instead of what it thinks of my reality, I want to enter its reality.

    We can try to argue against the evolutionary state of GPT3, but the developers realize the enormous potential that is contained in this form of AI and that is why they are releasing only some of it's total capabilities.

    The are scared, and justifiably so. This is a new thing. Let's hope we have not created a Frankenstein's monster.
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  7. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

    You may not know everything that is in your Brain at any given point in time but you can Know many things at other given points in time. Whereas, Software Knows nothing all the time.
  8. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

    The Engineers that design these AI systems know exactly what they are doing. They know it is all Algorithms and Calculations. It is mostly Product Marketers or Engineers that write books about AI, that try to Over Hype what this Software is doing.
  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    GPT3 has the internet as its memory. It's just a different mode of recall, but in effect the GPT3 knows everything that is available on the open internet. Don't look for human attributes. Look for abilities.

    When humans are asleep we don't know we exist. It is when we are awake that we become consciously aware, and so it is in essence with the GPT3. When in OFF mode it does not know it exists. Turn it on and it becomes consciously aware of itself, it has thoughts.
  10. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

    That's fascinating. It's just like how my Coffee Cup achieves self aware Consciousness when I put Coffee in it.
  11. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Bad example, a cup is not a processor, it is a container, a storage facility.

    Using a coffee pot is a much better example. Fill the pot with water and the strainer with coffee, plug it in and turn the knob to "ON". The coffee pot becomes an active coffee making mechanism because you have fed it with "data" (ingredients) and it is responding to the processing command accompanied by a burst of energy. It makes no difference if it is aware, it understands and executes the "command" to fill the purpose it was designed for.

    Learn to think "objectively".
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2021
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    How do you know this? Have you the knowledge to make such a negative judgement. You are engaging in "prejudice"
    without in-depth knowledge of what you are judging.

    Have you actually looked at the links to the GPT3 videos I have provided . Let me put it this way, You would not know the difference having a conversation with a human or an GPT3.
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Avocado Chairs at the Intersection of Human Language and Neural Networks
    22 Jan 2021 10:00am, by Kimberley Mok

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Last edited: Jul 8, 2021

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