Conscious Teleportation

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by tetra, Sep 29, 2001.

  1. tetra Hello Registered Senior Member


    I am having problems developing an opinion on this subject.

    If you used quantum physics to say, teleport yourself somewhere else in the universe, and your original copy was destroyed, would you have died?

    I know that in the traditional sense you did, but does it matter?

    Maybe we are constantly being destroyed and remade every second, an incalculable number of times. We wouldnt notice. We don't know that this isnt happening, maybe it is. Maybe that's what time is.

    I know that the copy wouldnt notice, and it would be you in each and every way, but it wouldn't be <i>you</i>. The material body that you posessed before the teleportation vanished, so logic tells me that I died. But I exist, and I think perfectly normal, so how did I die?
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  3. kmguru Staff Member

    How do you know that you are the same person when you wake up after dreaming a great dream?

    How do you know that your soul did not travel to another world while you were sleep?

    Just some thoughts...

    When me and my spouse have dreams that also includes the other (same night), 9 out of 10 times, we have the same dream. What does that mean, I have no idea.
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  5. Merlijn curious cat Registered Senior Member

    Hi Tetra,
    there has been a very interesting thread on the same subject under Frontier Physics>teleportation.
    Maybe you would like ot read it.

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  7. tetra Hello Registered Senior Member

    I went and read over that, but it was all about the process of transfering the mass, and whether or not the consious survives.

    I do not need that, because I know that the conscious would survive, but it would not be the conscious of the original mass, it would be a conscious of the mass that was assembled from the information extracted from the original mass.

    How do you know that you have a continuous conscious?

    Maybe every infinitessimal unit of time, you are destroyed, and created again. We wouldn't notice, we would simply assume that it didnt happen and that we have a continuous conscious, because the copy of the conscious is the exact same as the original.
  8. tetra Hello Registered Senior Member

    new idea -

    Maybe every second, every atom and subatomic particle in the universe is completley destroyed, the universe is completley destroyed, and countless new universes are created in the multiverse in which our actions' consequences are seen.

    Its kinda hard for me to convey that idea and I dont think I did a fantastic job, but oh well.

    The point Im trying to make is: Maybe we don't occupy a permanent universe. Maybe every universe we exist in at any given at any moment is destroyed, and several new ones are created with the information from the last. Maybe there is some static. Maybe that static creats chaos.
  9. Merlijn curious cat Registered Senior Member

    This truely is an intresting issue. Especially for me (cognitive psychologist with speciality philosophy of mind and cognition).

    As to the question "How do you know that you have a continuous conscious? "

    What are your ideas on what is consciousness? What brings it about and what is the link between brain and consciosness (the old mind-matter question).
    The answer to the original question is mainly determined by our views on those.

  10. glaucon tending tangentially Registered Senior Member

    Ahhh, a subject close to my heart. The continuity of Personal Identity was the subject of my Thesis; lots of fun to be had here.
    kmguru is correct: you cannot know that you are the same person upon waking, that you were when you fell asleep. And yet, we seem to have no problems whatsoever moving right along with our life...
    The problem here is of a recursive nature; when introspectively seeking the 'self', who is the one doing the seeking? One cannot divide oneself, and yet, the introspective act does occur. Although I must admit my position on this has been influenced by the work of Armstrong and Dennett, here it is: the very mental act of 'checking back' to find a temporal reference is the self. There is no natural, continuous 'self' that obtains. What we are looking for is the same kind of pattern recognition that we use to familiarize ourselves with faces but unfortunately, our 'self', is not that kind of thing. Rather, we need to be looking for a process, which, naturally, we cannot do. Our 'self' is a dynamic.
  11. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    You could get really picky with this, You could say:

    Every instance that exists, you whole subatomic level now exists in a different combination, meaning the changing of that instance you are now different.

    Of course that also means the whole universe works the same, so your world around you changes also.

    *Stares into a Fractal Polymorphic Pattern*
  12. kmguru Staff Member

    Long time ago, somewhere I read that time is not continuous rather than discrete with intervals however small. That means, the Universe exists from one moment to the other between the void. A recent read of Discover magazine talks about a similar theory where our existence is a slice of reality at the moment. You only exist at the moment. Your past awareness is a trick by the mind. The time frame of the past is another frame where you only exist in that frame.

    Since you always live in "now" frame, anytime you are aware that you exist is - you know that it is you (and your friends too). Based on this theory, you get teleported all the time from frame to frame as a conscious being - since it is the "Now" that matters.

    Just some thoughts....
  13. eggputer Registered Member

    Being Destroyed and Rebuilt (an equlibrium?)

    Being destroyed and rebuilt over time does not provide assurance that we are either here or not at a given instance, as the equlibrium between the two may be in favour of one at more instances than the other. A drug that binds a receptor may be either docked or free but the end result (wether the drug imparts it's message and hence works) is evident and measurable in it;s effects. This said, maybe it is the fact that we are here that proves our equlibriums are in favour of being here so that we may impart our message.

    Equilibriums can be altered so that one state is favoured. May be we are then forced to be here, like when increasing the temperature of a reaction mixture forces the favouring of one from over the other. If we can tap into these mechanisms of equlibrium control we may allow ourselve to be almost constantly not here yet constantly somewhere else, somewhere that linfers new laws on ourselves. The dynamics involved in these reactions must allow an exchange of energy between the forms and the surroundings, similar to those energy exchanges between wood and air when the wood is on fire i.e. HEAT.

    If we can influence the equilibrium we can influence the enery exchange.
  14. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member

    tetra ...

    Not destroyed ... changed.

    Take a look in the mirror, then look at a picture of yourself taken ten years earlier.

    It is happening on a day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute, second by second basis. But short of a catastrophic change, ex. an accident, we don't normally notice it (except for that first gray hair or wrinkle).

    Time is change. No change, no 'time'.
  15. kmguru Staff Member

    Welcome to our equilibrium forum eggputer ....
  16. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

    I have an idea forming, I might have to get back to this forum but let me lay out the basic concept.

    Maybe, somehow we all define exactly how each of us looks and how our surrounding world looks and acts like just by our thoughts. We all see close to the same thing because our parents do and they educated us into seeing this world as everyone else does. The rare occurences where this does not happen may be real psychics or people that can move things with their mind.

    Maybe once we really, really realize this we can change the Universe as we see fit, change anything with nothing other than imagination.

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