Conservation of souls?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by James R, Jun 19, 2018.

  1. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    I agree. You can plan your life so minutely that you miss most of the nice surprises.
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Not really, it's all the way down to particles from fields.....difference.

    Now, one can claim that the particle field are tended by god(s) but that pretty well does away with all scripture or oral metaphorical tradition and we end up with some metaphysical force which cannot be appeased by prayer or does not really care except about tending the fields.

    i.e. It does away with a "personal" god who listens to your prayers.
    I can live with that.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
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  5. gmilam Valued Senior Member

    Sorry if you thought you and Bowser were on the same page... More of that baggage that comes along with the word "God".
    sideshowbob likes this.
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  7. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

    I think there is another line which goes somewhat like

    The strength not to kill the people who piss me off

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  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Well, that's a whole nother ball of worms, now isn't it? Destiny, I mean.

    Naturally, being a skeptic of all things supernatural, destiny to me is just another fabrication.
  9. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    You always have a choice, there is never just one option. If we have free will. If not, then we never have a choice, no matter how many option we think there are.
    Xelasnave.1947 likes this.
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    I used to think that way also, yet the more I learn about the thought process (quantum wave collapse) the more I am beginning to lean to a more probabilistic scenario, where the brain makes a decicion based on its best guess. This may be deterministic to the individual, but may vary from individual to individual, depending on.............

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  11. Baldeee Valued Senior Member

    And the fields come from where, exactly?
    Plus I mentioned nothing about any deity, capitalised or otherwise.
    Whether you want to say it is fields, or God, or gods, or anything else, the "turtling" only stops when someone decides upon a case of special pleading.
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    No, it follows the law of "movement in the direction of greatest satisfaction"
    i.e. "spontaneous self-assembly".

    This is not special pleading. It's a "probability".

    Robert Hazen explains this concept and projection by the mathematical function, rates the probability for "spontaneous pattern forming of bio-chemicals into living organisms from purely chemical reactions" very high.

    start clip @ 25:10

    I particularly like the irony contained in the science of "Large number of rare event distribution", which is a lexical statistic, among others, in Literature, like reading a Book.
    Lots of common words like "is","and", and "the", but it's the rare words that identify the genre, the authorship. Doesn't seem to need a self-sentient causality. It's mathematical nature makes it probabilistic, and in the face of "infinity" it becomes "inevitable" and "deterministic". Earth alone had internal experimentation of chemical reactions.
    The total: 2 trillion, quadrillion, quadrillion, quadrillion spontaneous chemical reactions in the life time of a planet like earth. No designer, just probability.

    Personally I suspect that life on earth happened at several distinct places and times , unrelated to each other except for their "common deniminators", molecules.

    Each place of Origin developing its own mythological and metaphorical account.
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  13. Baldeee Valued Senior Member

    I appreciate that you look for every opportunity to share your belief, but in this instance it is misplaced.
    I am not referring to what happens once the building blocks are available.
    But what gives rise to the building blocks.
    And what gives rise to the thing that gives rise to the building blocks etc.
    So, please, no more about what happens with components once they are available, but about how those components were there in the first place.
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Dynamical fields, a bunch of them from which the fundamental components of matter emerge. The self -assembly comes thereafter.
  15. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

    Are you destined to die? Can you prevent your ultimate demise? You know what they say...death and taxes.
  16. Capracus Valued Senior Member

    Your destiny in regards to your mortality, or anything else for that matter, is ultimately a product of universal action, and more specifically local action. If an independent observer had enough information of a given resolution regarding your environmental action, and the ability to process it, they could predict your demise, whether by disease or becoming one with a bus. So the trick to cheating destiny is to be completely situationally aware, but then that becomes your destiny as well, so in end destiny always wins. In any case its not something any of us will be saddled with in our lifetimes, so we’ll just have to be content with taking on life as it unfolds before us.
  17. Baldeee Valued Senior Member

    And the fields come from where?
    I.e. what gives rise to them?
    And when you've answered that, ask yourself what gives rise to whatever it is that gives rise to the field?
    FYI if you're still only talking about what goes on inside the universe then you're not even in the same ballpark as the point I initially made.
    What gave rise to the universe?
    What then gave rise to that which gave rise to the universe.
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    A hierarchy of natural orders?
    Whatever it was it was not intelligent and motivated. I'm willing to place a bet on that.
  19. Baldeee Valued Senior Member

    So you really didn't understand anything I initially wrote, and instead simply used it as an excuse to post your own beliefs that have little to no bearing on what the point was.
    Fair enough.
    If ever you do want to go back and actually respond with something relevant, feel free.
  20. gmilam Valued Senior Member

    That's why, "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable answer. I would even be willing to bet that the ultimate answer is not only unknown, but is unknowable.
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Well, it's very unlikely that it is intelligent and motivated. Think of what is required to achieve such sentient properties, when we know that the smallest dynamic function is probabilistic quantum mechanics.
    I am just keeping it realistic......unlike theists.
  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Are you willing to place a bet???
  23. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    I think a new definition for atheists...folk who dont make up God stories.

    A t shirt. .."I am an atheist and I dont know"

    I find "I dont know" appealingly honest.

    But there are folk who need the make believe and unfortunately there are plenty of vendors to take their cash.

    The best case for atheism is that it requires so few resourses but theists need God houses and a huge labour force...
    I wonder what the carbon footprint is for religions.


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