Considering what he accomplished with the Abraham Peace Accords should Israel grab Trump?

Discussion in 'Parapsychology' started by Dennis Tate, Apr 25, 2021.

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Should Israel attempt to lure President Donald J. Trump to Israel?

  1. no

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  2. yes

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  3. Yes....this would decrease the probability of Israel being attacked

    1 vote(s)
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  4. No.....this would increase the probability of Israel being attacked

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  5. Maybe..... constitutional monarchies proved helpful during WWII.

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  6. Yes...the economy of Israel has been hit hard by COVID 19 and he would help them a lot.

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  7. No.... the economy of Israel has been hit hard by COVID 19 and his going there could hurt them

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  1. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Get drunk and stoned

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    and let other people know you believe in what you say.

    :




    :EDIT:

    Or, maybe not drunk and stoned... Up to you.

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    Last edited: May 1, 2021
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  3. Bells Staff Member

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    There could be other causes. To the one, your friend's brother may not have been that deeply under, or he may have watched videos of similar procedures or read up on it prior to the procedure. He could have been dreaming. It could very well be his brain.

    The reason I find it dubious is simply because the stories are just so similar. There has been a lot of research into this. For example:

    In 1955, a Canadian neurosurgeon called Wilder Penfield electrically stimulated the brains of people with epilepsy. On one occasion, he stimulated a patient’s right temporal lobe and the patient exclaimed, “Oh God! I am leaving my body.”

    In 2002, a Swiss group also working on patients with epilepsy passed a weak current through a patient’s right angular gyrusTrusted Source, which is where the parietal lobe meets the temporal lobe. This region is also called the temporoparietal junction.

    The patient relayed a sensation of “falling from a height.” As they increased the current, she said, “I see myself lying in bed, from above, but I only see my legs and lower trunk.”

    Our brains do such a wonderful job of pinning us in reality that we often forget that the pins are an illusion and can, therefore, sometimes be shaken loose. Blanke, one of the scientists involved in the Swiss experiment, believes, “OBEs are related to a failure to integrate multisensory information from one’s own body at the temporoparietal junction (TPJ).”

    In another study conducted by Blanke, he and his team studied six neurological patients with brain lesions that caused them to experience occasional OBEs. They found “the angular gyrus to be involved in all five patients in whom lesion analysis could be performed.”

    The latest studies position OBEs squarely in the court of the TPJ. So, what do we know about this region of the brain?

    The TPJ is an area that collates a range of information. It is a hub of activity, with inputs from the thalamus (which relays sensory information) and the limbic system (which is important in emotion and memory). It also takes data from the visual, auditory, and somatosensory (bodily sensations) systems.

    The TPJ integrates information from the external environment as well as from within the body. It is thought to play a part in the distinction between self and other, which makes the TPJ a prime contender for the seat of OBEs
    .​

    The sensation more often than not occurs during a period of strain or stress on the person (such as during surgery or near death), but can also be induced using drugs or certain stimulation with electrical currents. Which clearly signifies some people are more susceptible to the sensation or feeling that.

    The reason I refer to it as a sensation is because a fairly big study was conducted in numerous hospitals. The report of OBE's often involve floating above their own bodies and seeing themselves on a bed or during surgery, often when they are dying, as some examples. The study (same link as embedded above) was exceptionally simple:

    A study from 2014, titled Awareness during ResuscitationTrusted Source (AWARE), was the first serious large-scale investigation to look at NDEs. The study addressed the possibility of veridical perception during OBEs.

    The research involved multiple hospitals and hundreds of interviews with cardiac arrest survivors. To investigate whether any individuals had genuinely floated above themselves and viewed their surroundings, researchers placed pictures on shelves that would only be viewable from above. In this way, they could test whether people experiencing OBEs really could leave their bodies.

    Although there were only two veridical OBEs during the study, neither could accurately relate the images from the shelves. We eagerly await the next phase, known as AWARE II. As the authors write, “Another veridical recall is a real possibility in the 1,000+ monitored cases, and who knows, that ever elusive visual recall may yet be found.”

    https://youinsideyourbrain.wordpress.com/2015/02/23/aware-ii/
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141007092108.htm

    The links might interest you.
     
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  5. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks for links.
    Interestingly enough the close friend I mentioned phoned 'out of the blue' today and provided further details. His brother's head was taped down to the bed with eyes completely covered, operation was to remove a cancerous kidney. The 'detailed observations' I mentioned turned out to be 'just' him observing a surgeon's assistant applying mild shock to his ankles as verbally instructed, owing to concerns his EEG had drifted dangerously close to complete flat-lining i.e brain death. Well that at least is all my friend could recall many years after the event. It could be argued that shock somehow wakened his consciousness despite deep anesthesia and allowed the formation of a reconstructed fake OBE. Which though fails to account for his accurately recalling the time of shock administration and verbal instructions given to the assistant by the surgeon. Whether he could identify them facially I don't know but having masks and head-gowns on would make that challenging.

    None of the examples you gave covered the case of people under deep anesthesia at the time of OBEs. I am well aware that carefully targeted electrical/magnetic brain stimulation can induce made-to-order OBEs in awake or lightly sedated subjects but deep anesthesia cases are a huge chasm to cross. There are any number of such recorded incidents and it's easy to find them with a simple well directed web search.
    No doubt 'resident expert' Dennis Tate will be happy to provide a list and iirc already has linked to studies whose quality I don't care to explore.
     
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  7. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    Sometimes my getting booted off a forum is win - win - win - win for all of us concerned.......

    I got banned from ChristianForums about a year ago and that was a massive favour to me because my time was wasted there.....

    As best as I can figure it out they got rid of me because I felt that Latter day Saints were just as much "Christians" as I was .. which was a form of blasphemy over there........
    If I had not been banned on ChristianForums I would probably never have found Sciforums.
     
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  8. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Well, this is a different forum.
     
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  9. Bells Staff Member

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    The person may have some level of consciousness though that may not be picked up during surgery.

    They have found that some level of consciousness is still present even during periods where there should be none (ie, death).. So personally for me, I don't think it would be surprising that even during surgery, one could have some level of awareness.

    I think the pictures on the shelves study is weird, but interesting. I also think that for treatment purposes, understanding this is vital, as some patients who do experience that sensation could end up with quite a bit of trauma and PTSD. From one of the things I read, they even advised doctors to be careful during resuscitation attempts simply because the person may actually have some level of consciousness that would cause them to remember what happened to them during those times. What also raised my eyebrows is how they suspect a lot more people experience this during surgery or during moments where they are being resuscitated, but simply will not remember due to the medications they were given (as one example).

    So yes, it's possibly your friend being shocked may have triggered some level of consciousness or awareness during those periods.

    On a personal level for me, the thought that there could be some level of consciousness when there shouldn't be, brings me to my knees and literally makes me want to scream. Simply because I watched my father pass away with the assurance that he was unconscious and not aware of what was happening as he was severely doped up on several drugs at that point in time and had not woken up for 5 days prior to his passing during what can only be described as a horrific and prolonged. They had tested him multiple times, to make sure there was no response to stimuli and there was not, the idea that some level of consciousness could remain, that he would have been aware of what his body was going through, that he could have experienced it, is exceptionally distressing to me. In a lot of ways, the research interests me. But in so many other ways, it makes me feel a sense of horror and pain to the point of weeping.
     
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  10. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    My older brother passed on September 23, 2020 and although my wife and I are on significantly different pages when it comes to spirituality we both had a very positive experience being with him during his last hours of life although he did not regain full consciousness.

    Both my wife and I were aware that he could well probably hear us as I prayed for him... .
    mostly in my head.....
    and hear my wife as she prayed for him audibly.

    He was only sixty eight and we really could not have imagined his condition deteriorating so rapidly as it did last year with C.O.P.D. and liver disease.

    My wife is very gifted and felt a real sense of peace as we left his room that day......... We just arrived home when we got the call that he had passed on about a half an hour after we had left his room in the hospital.

    I am truly sorry for what you went through with your dad.....
    but from what I have read this will all work out to be a major learning experience for all of us over the longer term. Frankly..... I believe over infinite time in the future.
     
  11. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    Similarly with my own father back in Feb 2020. It was terrible seeing his gradual deterioration. Didn't want to be there in the end but when the time actually came was glad to be at the bedside with next of kin. Modern medicine's prolonging of elderly life and palliative care can be a good or bad thing. I'm in favor of carefully ethically administered voluntary euthanasia. Dad always uncomplainingly toughed troubles through and that option was moot in his case.
     
  12. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    For all that I know this might even be a whole new time line........
    example of Theistic Applied Multiverse Theory........
    assuming at least partial validity of the Helen Wambach Ph. D. , Dr. Chet Snow and Dr. Ian Stevenson research.

    Now to attempt to convince Israelis that grabbing President Trump would be a really good deal for them to make.......

    President Donald J. Trump impresses me as the kind of guy who tends to put in ten to eighteen productive hours each day............

    I think that even when he plays a round or two of golf..........
    if we were to analyze who he played against........

    and what he said to them.........

    ...... we might conclude that even when he is playing golf he is doing what really needs to be done to Make America Great Again!

    My daughter was in a Disney film entitled The Circuit.......
    it was shot just outside Antigonish, N. S., Canada which is about 70 kms from our home.


    While talking to some of the other stars on the set I found out that minimum wage on a Disney film if you have ONE spoken line..... is roughly a thousand dollars per hour.


    I believe that President Donald J. Trump is truly worth about a million dollars per hour for every hour of his time that he served as President of the USA from January of 2017 until January 20 of 2021!

    I believe that he has no competition whatsoever for that role................. none!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Frankly.... I believe that the combined value of his competition as of today May 3, 2021...... is actually a negative number!!!


     
  13. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    having experience with young males in varying formats
    with varying mixes of virgins a-social gender separatist religious conservatives & varying other mixes.
    young men
    are in fact teenagers in conservative religious environments
    you see this a bit in the usa where the age differential is geared against learning with adult legal drinking age being 21

    it drives a normalized mentality to maintain an evangelical mob/group aspect which gives lots of ego & power support to the religious leaders and power brokers(parents included)
    but it robs the young men of their advantageous learning curve to learn 100's more % of knowledge at the critical points while they should also be developing their emotional intelligence.

    all those young men are in theory virgins ?
    all acting like 12 to 14 year olds
    add on top of that mass hysteria of large scale events
    etc etc
    its like handing out loaded hand guns to everyone with no safetys

    which is linked to the topic because of Barron trump
    who would in theory be immigrating to socialize with those same people if aligned with the thread topic

    im not sure Barron trump would be so keen to not be the center of attention and hold the word of god over house servants etc

    such a move to live in such a place would probably result in alienating him even more toward (colloquially)serial killer esque genres of persuasion
    maybe that would be ideal for the next prime minister of Israel
    Barron von turnip(the farmers man) for Israeli president

    an olive branch for peace or spanking(metaphors of peace & overt control, order & social diversity)
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  14. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,066
    fyi
    i have spoken personally & been friends with people whom this type of thing is very normal and common in their life
    suffice to say they tend to avoid mainstream religious people who venomously fear such realities not being controlled by their patriarchal man leader & being assigned under a monotheist form of overt mind control.

    burning people at the stake is not very far away from such institutionalized dogma mind control evangelical religions when they find they can not control others to do their bidding for them and face potential loss of control of authority of some of their flock.
    they will become the serial killer in a heart beat.

    real power needs to be kept away from such groups

    yes
    the whole brain dead versus not brain dead thing is a hard line to find
    they dont have brain monitors on during these events mostly
    so its up to the medical professionals who are furiously attempting to save their life to determine some perspective of concept of consciousness toward brain function
    im sure they can have some good guides based on oxygen BP heart rate etc etc

    my laymens guess is there is likely considerable low level brain activity at levels that may not be easily detectable by the conventional old technology
    as a simple postuate example concept
    liquid state function at a microscopic level
    may perform brain function inside an almost non transactory electrical format
    like a single electrical posative or negative state
    where the brain is not pushing
    instead like a internal cellular effect of cognition
    life may
    (white4U specializes in this)
    be currently on going at a level that is undetectable
    and may be a very thin line before total loss and being re-started again

    i guess somewhere in the future
    this may lead to hibernation capabilities
    but we dont need more people we need less a-holes

    i have had many out of such events which im not going to discuss
    conclusive proof in varying un denial forms
    etc etc
    but like a millionaire talking about their personal income and tax & how much cash they have in their bank or stacked under their mattress or the young 25 year old they are paying to have a sexual relationship with while their wife swings with the pool boy
    etc etc ...
    i dont stick my nose in other peoples businesses/lifes
    its not conducive to a long life(which is where i wonder if Dennis is heading eventually if he does not add some finesse and discretion to his content)
    & im not going to talk about
    even more so to appease some psychos ego cascade of bullshit (toxic masculinity ego rampaging etc)

    and when it comes to those who seek to control groups of people to do their bidding
    and have god complexes
    & build their self esteem self worth & self identity by placing other humans beneath them
    they are set up to destroy anyone or anything that does not obey them and bow to their demand for being seen as superior.
    many labels in varying forms are just insignia to give material re-confirmation to remind them to assert themselves as superior to animate reality
    a false form of self actuation
    but far too complicated to get into publicly
    no doubt there will be some reading these threads playing i-spy evangelical master mind world dominator etc
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  15. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    Now why do I suspect so much gushing praise for Trump stems from his giving Israel all it asked for like moving the US embassy to Jerusalem and turning a blind eye to continued expulsions of Palestinians from their ancestral homes to make way for Zionist fanatic Israeli settlers and legitimizing the annexation of Syria's Golan Heights region and sabre rattling against Iran? Not to mention the inevitable ramping up and up already obscenely lavish 'foreign aid' exceeding the combined total for the rest of the genuinely needy countries of the world. Throw in ever more tightly integrated 'joint defense programs' underwritten with US taxpayer money not Israel's but hugely benefiting the latter as always. And of course 'iron clad guarantees' to defend the Jewish State with as many US lives as is deemed appropriate by Netanyahu. Throw in smoothing one-sided technology transfer deals like the recent establishment of Intel's latest fab plant and R & D center. Where one inevitably expects back-dooring of their latest chips known only to Israel's massive spy industry. Intel Israel Inside indeed:

    Trump has of course done a lot of damage else wise via disastrous handling of Covid-19 pandemic but no need for me to add more on that well commented on issue elsewhere here.
    still, in deference to his starry-eyed support by at least one member here, I'll end this post on a positive note just to be nice:
     
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  16. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    But you have to admit.....
    what President Trump did from 2017 to 2021 has amazing potential to be thought of as
    something of a "stage" that could be used to launch quite a number of semi-reality science fiction film projects beginning from
    any point in time during those four years.
     
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  17. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah - you've got me having to agree with that angle. Darn right!

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  18. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    gaming anything at any price is a positive ?
    perceptional variables ...
    ability to draw wild imaginative concepts from global events does not seem to value better outcomes except those whom are not effected by those global events
    illogical conclusion

    false logic applied to define means as a ends to something that is unable to be aligned to be directly logically causative

    ok if your writing kids fantasy
    but t value global actions by their ability to use as muse for fantasy seems like an odd value.

    can it remain a valid theory once it is tested against comparative values ?
    dead bodies, ww2 etc etc

    team amerika world police
    & Israel is deputy ?

    closest common culture ?

    does israel differ to any significant moral & cultural difference to the general operation of the usa culture ?
    not really

    the modernization of conservative jews is high enough to draw them into a parable to conservative us Christians as a general statistical value to over all effective variables
     
  19. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    Ha ha ha ha. Team Amerika World Police was hilarious with clever borrowing from 60s era puppet-on-string animated TV shows for kids, while nicely cynical of the then still reasonably young 'War on terror'.
    Only naive dupes really believe all the resulting upheaval and bloodshed was unexpected fallout from 'good intentions gone awry' through 'poor planning' etc. BS.
    It's a matter of for some folks, informed opinion, as to whether the dog wags the tail or vice versa. Take for instance Netanyahu's record-breaking 29 unanimous standing ovations received before a 2011 joint sitting of Congress here:

    Add in a leaked secretly videoed conversation where he revealed his true opinion of which 'partner' is really in charge:
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/netanyahu-in-2001-america_n_649427
    And as for Netanyahu's reportedly secretly stated strategy re long term goal for that 'partnership':
    “Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away.”
    Entirely in keeping with his earlier and undeniably authentic 'we push America around with ease' casual boast.

    If you checked out some of the links under the YT vid by Brendon O'Connell I linked to earlier here, it becomes obvious Israel is positioning itself to becoming an indispensable 'partner' with up and comer China as part of that 'squeeze and blow away US' plan. Israel is loyal to Israel. Full Stop. Everything else amounts to short-to-medium-term alliances of convenience. Stepping stones to the Zionist dream/nightmare of world dominion 'as foreseen by the prophets of old'. Actually a dismayingly well advanced utterly evil realization of self-fulfilling prophesy - life imitating art.

    [PS: One only need to stop and reflect on why it is that countries like US, UK, EU and especially quarry-Australia risk severe backlash with heavy repercussions for 'standing up to' China ostensibly over its terrible human rights violations re Uyghur and native Tibetan ethnic minorities, yet afaik that kind of 'moral pressure' is NEVER pursued by Israel. Nor it seems is it ever pressured to do so by those risk taking 'morality driven' nations. How strange. How odd. But not when one understands the depths of Israel's political clout and utterly ruthless pursuit of self-interest.]
    Umm....pass.

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    Last edited: May 6, 2021
  20. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    A very good friend of mine from the 1980's had a brush with death a couple of years ago and what astonished him was the way that he felt detached and unconcerned about this world and with his life and the goals that he had while alive. Your phrase "calmly observing the surgical procedure" used to revive him was very similar to what my friend reported.
     
  21. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    On the plus side of events in the Middle East I find it encouraging that so many Israeli tourists are visiting some Islamic nations.

    It is also obviously a positive thing that so many Muslim tourists are visiting Israel. These past five years have been a time of a great deal of decreased tensions in much of the Middle East.

     
  22. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    I strongly suspect that some really interesting information will be coming out soon as to WHY BigMedia hated him and what he was doing so vehemently?!
     

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