Continuation----hell in a hand basket

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by ilgwamh, Jan 6, 2000.

  1. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    And now, the subject of my relationship with my father from the first-person perspective.

    Although I am an atheist, I still enjoy the discussion. Faithful, agnostic, atheist,...it all boils down to one's viewpoint about religion. My father did not stop talking to me entirely. He simply stopped discussing religion with me. Even when I tried to bring the subject up he'd wave me off. Once he said "It doesn't matter to you because you're an atheist." I took great offense to being told what does and doesn't matter to me. Rather than push a fight, I walked away.

    These Sunday morning talks were more than just a discussion of religion. They were communication with the greatest man in my life. I worship the sea he sailed on. I listen, enthralled by his not-so-daring but usually pretty funny wartime exploits. (He doesn't talk about the Jap bunker he took on so much as the time he accidentally hit the battle alarm when they were supposed to be running silent. He tends to paint himself more as Beetle Bailey than John Wayne.) This is the man who taught me how to ride a bike, how to defend myself, bought me my first car, and remodeled my living room when all I wanted was a paint job. He gave me the skills necessary to survive in any economic situation, from what markets to watch when the money is good to how to scratch up a job when the money is bad. Because of this man and all I have learned sitting at his side I will never go hungry.

    And then, because of God, I was made to feel like nothing in this man's eyes. Sunday mornings became worthless. I stopped popping in for coffee. I could hear the deafening silence next door in his kitchen. This went on for quite awhile. Even when I did decide to visit, we'd just sit there in stony silence. I wanted my father back so desperately that I played the one card that should never be played; I asked him to choose. My life was going to be walked without God, either way. It didn't have to be walked without my father. He didn't have to leave God behind, he had only to respect my opinions as I respected his.

    That was the Sunday when I was pronounced to be more important than God, Jesus, or any religion.

    I admit, my own pride and pain kept me away at first, but when I tried to re-open the lines of communication, I found tham closed on the other side. I guess he eventually saw just how much my beliefs meant to me, as much as his did to him. Things are better now, I'm still an atheist, he still isn't, and I feel I saved my father from the jaws of blind faith.

    I'd love to get him on this message board, but he's a jinx to any computer. He's not a techno-phobe, he's more techno-uneasy (despite the fact that he owned his own TV repair shop back in the 70s).
     
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  3. Flash Registered Senior Member

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    TS,
    How so??????????????
     
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  5. SkyeBlue Registered Senior Member

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    Truestory -

    Sorry to dig up old stuff, but I just noticed your quote in a post earlier this thread;

    "Skye will love this... there was even a point when I was a young teenager, working as a cashier in a local grocery store, when I developed a "crush" on an "older man," the 18 year-old assistant manager. One day, when in the library, a book caught my attention which had an advertisement on the cover, something along the lines of, "How to make that special someone love you." I took the book home, read it, and even managed to get a lock of hair from my special someone. He was a little hesitant at first, but eventually, he was willing to let me cut the sample off. I never did go through with that prescribed "ritual," because he ended up asking me out on a date. "

    Actually, Truestory, I'm very glad you didn't do the ritual. This kind of spell is against what I believe is right. Coercing someone to love you with a spell is just plain manipulation, and will bring nothing but negative energies back to you. Not trying to pick on you, but I just wanted to make that clear - I don't condone these types of spells!! Very important!: Spells should't be cast against someone, only FOR someone and with their explicit permission. If I had to catagorize the spell you (fortunately) did not cast, I would have to consider that to be "black" magick. (ie done to force someone to do something without their will) There ARE certain types of love spells that are acceptable, if you're interested we can talk about that, but I'm at least TRYING to stay on topic (for a change!).

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  7. truestory Registered Senior Member

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    Thanks, Skye - I, too am glad that I did not participate in the ritual. Who knows? If I had, I could be going to hell in a hand-basket right now!

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    Anyway, I understand and appreciate your position and clarification of the difference between good spells and bad spells. Please let me add a disclaimer...

    Kids, do not try this at home!
     
  8. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    Awww! You'd enjoy the ride, at least. We're partying like crazy over here!

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    Actually, I admit I am guilty of practicing candle magic. Candles are just so relaxing, and I know it goes against all logic and reason, but if your mind associates a particular color with a particular emotion (as has been proven), then what harm is it, spiritually or academically, if I light a candle that brings to mind someone I care for? Or if light one that calms me and relaxes me because of its particular hue? Is it magic or psychology? Eh, who cares? If it feels good, do it.

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    I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight, kill, and die for your right to say it.
     
  9. 666 Registered Senior Member

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    378
    Truestory,

    If we can't accept ourselves we can not accept anyone eles. This includes Jesus Christ. The cure all is not faith in God/Jesus, but with ourselves. Learn who you are, accept who you are. If you don't like what you see change what you can and accept that which you can not change. This doesn't mean do what you want. It means do your best to keep from doing what it is you do not like or feel is wrong. I may be wrong, but morals are not learned they are a part of you. Right and wrong is with us from the day we are born. The only people who can not see what is right from are those who do not try to hide what they have done wrong. Those who hide know what they have done wrong. In a nust shell this is what I belive in. Not the magic of a false God, but the magic of the soul.



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    My life could have been black and white, but I had to color it.
     
  10. truestory Registered Senior Member

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    666,

    O.K... Big disagreement time... but I still love ya!

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    I have seen too many times when "mob" rules... Where people who know what they are doing is "wrong" feel "comfortable" doing it anyway and don't hide what they are doing because "everyone else" is doing it.



    [This message has been edited by truestory (edited January 12, 2000).]
     
  11. truestory Registered Senior Member

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    Oxygen! Are you dancing?!

    Yeah, there seems to be a physiological affect which certain scents have on people. Personally, I like the natural scent of juniper in a breeze.

    Aaaahhhhhh!!!
     
  12. SkyeBlue Registered Senior Member

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    260
    Oxygen,

    I see nothing wrong with using candle magick! (Woah, big surprise, right!

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    ) As long as you're not trying to force someone to do something against their will, go for it! For some reason, the scent of sandalwood always reminds me of my husband, and clove reminds me of my best friend. So if I'm feeling depressed or lonely, I could dab a bit of each scent on my wrists, close my eyes, and just bask in the love I feel for them, and from them. If I associated a color with each of them, I would feel no qualms about lighting a candle for each of them instead. THAT is the kind of love spell that will warm your heart, and bring positive vibrations to you and your loved ones.

    To me, juniper is a very male scent, I might use that one, or maybe pine to make me think of my father. Mint seems feminine to me, but for my mom Verbena is the scent. My Grandmother is honeysuckle. My mother-in-law would be mint, I suppose, because nothing is coming to mind for her.

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    Does that mean the scents actually are doing something? Not really, it's the associations in my mind that do the trick. Mint is also a healthy smell for me. So if I wanted my mom to get better from an illness, I might smoulder some verbena first, then some mint with more verbena - essence of my mother, then essence of her mixed with health. I would ask permission first, of course, but I'm sure she would give it. Hopefully, these symbolic scents would help me 'program' the energies I would then send to her aid. And that, folks, is the basics of spellcasting!

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  13. truestory Registered Senior Member

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    Hello Skye,

    A while back, you were concerned about breaking the news to your family (parents?) that you decided to take up witchcraft... Have you told your Mom yet?
     
  14. SkyeBlue Registered Senior Member

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    260
    True' -

    Yup, I sure did! I was surprised at how well she took it. She did ask a few questions, but on the whole she agrees with most of the beliefs I put forth. She herself is moving away from Catholicism and more towards Buddhism, which I am sure helps her see things from my point of view. She hasn't actually asked for a spell yet, but she has hinted around a little bit that she might even ask me to do some "work" for her. So, it seems my fears were unfounded afterall. I have yet to break it to my father, but that's mainly because I haven't had a chance to see him face to face in a little while. I'm not worried about his reactions though, he and I have always been able to communicate well. I'm sure he will understand.

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    I am very grateful that they are accepting, I have a hard time keeping secrets from them - I really hate doing it. I CAN, if I have to, but I'd really rather be out in the open, instead of hiding in the broom closet.

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  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Truestory--

    You wrote that some scents have a psychological effect.

    I just wanted to chime in and let you know that it's not just your perception of that effect. I have read it asserted that smell is the most directly applied sense--vision, touch, and hearing all require certain translations of the signal received and sent to the brain. Taste, as it was explained, is like smell, except that it's dependent on the olfactory.

    But it was explained that, in cases of memory, your mind can play all sorts of tricks on your other senses, but the only trick it can play on smell is to make you mistake one smell for another in your consciousness. Apparently, the smell sense is the actual chemical/electrical process taking place, with very little translation. The signal is direct and raw and physical, so that, when we think back on past loves, say--I might not recall the color of her hair quite right, but I will not forget the scent of that perfume. I may not recall the exact pitch of her voice, but when I come across another human being whose body generates extremely similar scents, I will not be wrong in recalling that I know that scent.

    Sum total: Apparently, smell is the most powerful sense we have. I, too, enjoy juniper, for probably many of the same reasons. We might use different words to express them, but the underlying function of the reasons probably look quite similar.

    For the record--as a general note--sandalwood, cedar, and pine are powerful incenses for me. Juniper I prefer before moving to sage. Jasmine's okay, but my grandmother wore tons of jasmine, so I have this association between jasmine and older women in my head.

    Oh ... while we're on smells: take a pack of vanilla incense, mix it with a pack of sandalwood, and store it in a cedar box. Forget about it for a month, and you've got yourself one heck of an incense ... I've never been able to get someone to mix that one just right.

    Anyway, thanx,
    Tiassa

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    Take a side you say, it's black and gray. And all the hunters take the hunted merrily out to play. We are one, you say, but who are you? You're all too busy reaping in the things you never sown. And this beast must go on and on and on .... Nobody gives a damn. (Floater; "Beast")
     
  16. 666 Registered Senior Member

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    Truestory,

    I did say "in a nut shell".

    There all ways exceptions when dealing with a large gruop of people. On indivdual level people are very inteligant. As a whole pretty dumb. How do feel about the rest of post, the accepting yourself before being able to accept anyone eles?

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    My life could have been black and white, but I had to color it.
     
  17. truestory Registered Senior Member

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    tiassa,

    Yes, I have read relatively much about the "physiological" effects of scents.

    Both you and Skye have mentioned sandalwood. Right now, I have no conception of that scent.

    Although I am sure that natural cedar is nice, since my Mom used to also keep moth-balls in her cedar chest, cedar has lost its appeal for me. I also have an aversion to vanilla... Probably due to the fact that my Mother also used to try to keep us all clean looking, no matter what, to the point of wiping our sticky vanilla ice-cream hands and faces in public with a "spit-dampened" tissue once the previously-fresh facecloth was spent... yuck!!!

    Given that, I doubt your prescribed mixture would sit well with me... juniper is good though!

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  18. truestory Registered Senior Member

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    666,

    How do I feel about the rest of your post? O.K., here goes, my friend:

    Here, I agree with you... Especially when it comes to accepting Jesus Christ. We must accept ourselves for what we are and that is a sinner, like everyone else, before we can accept Jesus Christ as our Saviour.

    Here, it depends on what you consider the "cure"... If you are speaking of personal spiritual salvation, the acceptance of Jesus Christ is the only way. If you are speaking about having to accept yourself for who and what you are before you can accept others, then, I agree. If you are speaking about true inner peace which enables you to love "everyone" regardless of their sins, then one must be in the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

    I have never met a human being who is or was able to do what is right all the time except for Jesus Christ. The rest of us are all sinners. However, when we truly walk with Jesus Christ, we are lead away from even the temptation to sin.

    You are probably not sure of this because there is an age old argument over nature vs nurture in "society." Consider this: An infant is born. This infant is nurtured and given much love and attention. So much so, that they consider themselves the center of the universe. When they cry, they are picked up. Even though the infant cannot speak, the parent assesses the infants particular need at the present moment and accomodates the need... whether it be the need to be fed, changed, covered, uncovered, bathed, hugged, rocked or just the need to feel the loving touch of another human, etc... as the infant grows to be a toddler, and is playing with other toddlers, the child now exhibits an unwillingness to share toys with other children. Is that because the child was born knowing that it was morally wrong to "share"? Or, is it because the child has been nurtured to the point of believing that he/she is the center of the universe and has just not yet been "taught" to share? One who believes that "sharing" is morally good might argue that the child was born with the inherent knowledge that sharing was right, but that they were taught to believe that they were the center of the universe through previous experience. Another, who believes that "sharing" is not necessarily a moral obligation might argue that the child was born with this inherent knowledge and that the previous nurturing was not the cause of their unwillingness to share.

    So, was this child born with the natural knowledge that "sharing" was not necessarily right? Or, did this child come to believe erroneously, through nurturing, that the world was here to accomodate their needs? Mankind has been debating about these types of questions for centuries.

    If we consider allowing a third party with higher knowledge to settle the argument, and if we allow ourselves to consider the totality of the human being who was born... that is, mind, body and soul... then we might consider what God has told us about such matters of the soul... That we are born with original sin... and that we must "learn" to love each other in the Spirit of Jesus Christ, which includes sharing.

    As for the rest of your previous post, well, I believe I already covered it...

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    Nice chatting with you again, 666!!!

    BTW - You might want to comment on your name under the thread about the law of threes.

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    [This message has been edited by truestory (edited January 14, 2000).]
     
  19. Flash Registered Senior Member

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    TS,
    Ummmm... you have met Jesus Christ????????????????? Yeah, right.

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  20. truestory Registered Senior Member

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    Flash,

    Of course I did not meet Jesus Christ while He dwelled amongst us in the flesh, however I live with Him everyday.



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    Your justice I kept not hid within my heart; your faithfulness and your salvation I have spoken of; I have made no secret of your kindness and your truth in the vast assembly. (Psalm 40:11)
     
  21. Flash Registered Senior Member

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    Yeah, that's what I thought LOL

    Hmmmmmm..new signature????
     

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