Copyright help needed for refutation of "silver bullet" argument againt Atheistic morality

You sound crazy to me. And to just about everyone else.

 

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Your posts are sounding quite crazy.

 

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Banned the IP, but not the account? They must have realized I was using an automatic proxy built into the "Epic Privacy Browser." You know, for all the dirty little secrets I like to take out and play with when no one else is looking? Of course, there's a far more likely explanation for this, but... meh.

Of course I sound crazy to you people! I've tailored those posts for the purpose of showing those two specific people on FB how crazy their ideas are, and the insanity gets even more extreme here! Did you really think that was my normal prose? No, it isn't. Just like when my time dealing with John Fontes went on, and I started getting a lot less serious with him (because he hadn't earned the right to be treated seriously, and while I was willing to treat him seriously at first regardless of that fact, I was getting bored), I'm starting to let my right brain hemisphere have fun with you! It's just painting a picture of the parts of all of you that you can't see, because you're all hiding from yourselves. Your community can put on a sane, rational face, which shows that there's some recognition of reason among the people here, and while that sanity is only skin-deep, it's enough to let you know what you're up against. No, I'm not going to boast about myself; I haven't grown to the point where I would be worthy of making such a boast, even if I can do well enough to at least try to apply what I'd be boasting about in dealing with the people here. Even if and when I grow that much as a person, I wouldn't be able to boast anyway, because anyone who is that great would have no need for boasting. But, I digress...

You're all up against progress. You thought you could get by on adopting the fruits of progress from the past as a form of dogma, but now, even if you don't want to admit it, you see that it's not good enough, and given where things are going, you'll have to lose the dogma and start growing with the rest of the world. Leading that growth is science, and you're holding the world back by clinging to old scientific claims, things that even science has stopped claiming to be true. This isn't good for the security of your egos, however. You can't face a world in which people reach for higher standards than your own, and so you just get in the way, hoping that you can be enough of an obstacle that you can stop progress, so you'd never have to have to face that world. Guess what? You're not big enough. Sciforums has nothing that can stand in the way of progress, because the people here are small in number and smaller in significance. I've seen places where quite a few people have gone to lament that there's a site like this, claiming to be scientific, having gone away so they won't have to deal with the likes of you. But that's not how progress happens. Progress is a good thing to fight for, so why doesn't everyone fight for it? This might come as a surprise to you: because it's too hard to deal with the problems that hold everyone back. You can't make progress while the problems still go unsolved. You can't solve problems by allowing them to continue to exist.

Wanna know something else? A lot of these problems have their roots in the ideas that humanity abides by today. In other words, you can't have room for the world of tomorrow while the world of today is still in the way. Theodore Roosevelt knew this, and that's how he managed to be the greatest hero in human history. He didn't just protect people, or try to engage in damage control; he solved the problems that he saw, because he knew that nothing would get better if everyone was too busy protecting themselves or trying to recover from what they couldn't protect themselves from. He didn't just do this for everyone else, though. He did this for himself, too. Different though he was from everyone else, he saw that he was still made of the same human components that every other human was made of, and he knew that he could not become the great hero that he wanted to be if he couldn't challenge, and solve, the same problematic components that kept everyone else from becoming great heroes themselves. That's how you can have lofty goals of changing the world, and avoid becoming a problem in doing so. You have to be willing to face every component of you that could harbor problems, and bring those problems out and into the world when those components are called upon, and you must make sure that those components will never do such a thing, by solving the problems within.

Right now, I'm not just being a thorn in your side. I'm being a thorn stuck in a side of you that you all refuse to look at, because you can't face the problems you'll see if you do. If you want that thorn to stop poking into you, you'll have to take it out, and you can't really do that without looking at the problematic part of you that the thorn is stuck in. You're going to have to face it sometime, though. Even if you can remove this thorn without looking at it, you'll end up hurting yourself even more, because you refuse to see where you're poking into yourself as you try to take the thorn out, and you'll injure yourself, opening up a wound that will have to deal with not just thorns, but infections. No, if you want to remove the thorn correctly, you'll have to look at the ugliest, most hideous side of yourselves, and see the grotesque, cancerous growth that caught the thorn in the first place. Maybe then, you'll realize that the thorn was a good thing, because it forced you to look, and see that you are afflicted with a far more dangerous malady.

 

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Just a word salad troll.

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I fought one of those, once. Believe me, he was a tough one. But I stayed the course, and I was at least able to drive him off for a while. He never had the same vigor he had, after what I did. Without his "word-salad" problem, he had to try something else for a change, and he hasn't found anything that quite works for him since having to face his flaws. Maybe, eventually, he'll realize that he has to use reason against me. Maybe, eventually, the people here will realize the same thing.

EDIT: Also, really? Granted, Spidergoat's the one who accused me of being unable to handle ambiguity, but still, I'm handling ambiguity better than any of you ever have, and I'm still able to insert some truths in my metaphors. As for the rest of you all, you can't make a clear case for any objective truths, even when you're not trying to be ambiguous.

I'll let you think about that while I leave you alone for a little bit. Like I said, I don't have half the time to do the things I have to do, and I'm starting to push it with the "keeping my mind active through the dull parts" justification. Not that I'm not handling things that aren't difficult, mind you; figuring out how to make a moral system for which Gödel's incompleteness theorems, before I even knew what said theorems were called (seriously, you can solve problems before you've ever even heard of them, if you would just use your head) wouldn't be a problem, is almost nothing compared to trying to figure out how to catch errors when non-double inputs are put into fields intended for users to enter doubles in Java.

 

I suppose I should clear something up... I'm coming clean everywhere else, because I really do have problems of my own, and even if no one here has earned the truth, or could be relied upon to help me with my problems, or cares either way, I'm trying to overcome my own flaws and weaknesses as a person, and it's not like owning up to something other than what I already have could make our interactions here any worse than they already are. We both know that I bother you all a lot, and despite what I've said about what mood I'm in (there is that fun, but like everything else I've posted here, it's only a tiny part of something bigger and more complex), we all know you bother me, too. I mean, I've told you that I'll come back at my leisure, but... well, this isn't leisure in the slightest. Despite all of the trouble I have given the people here, I am not a troll, but if I keep allowing these mistakes to happen, and allowing the personal flaws that cause them to exist, if I were to become an internet troll, that would be almost nothing compared to the thoughtless monster I could become, especially given all of the things I'm now trying to do with my life.

Perhaps you would have figured part of the following out in the "treasure," had you looked, but even that does not tell the whole story, nor will this post here tell the whole story of the "treasure." "Xanatos Gambit" or not, I made a mistake on the very first page of this thread. I'm sure you'd all laugh at me for whatever part of my long, melodramatic, painfully accurate and detailed life story I could give you, and I'm already facing that everywhere else, so I'll try to keep the context, and the confession explained by said context, short (whatever that means, for my posts; this stuff could take up whole pages of posts here, if I posted their original text in these boxes):

For a long time in my life, I denied myself the ability to feel emotions, and for the most part, I actually succeeded. I saw that everyone else would rather feel secure than know whatever horrible truths they didn't want to deal with, and as a result, none of the problems would get solved. Everything from denying overwhelming evidence to "political correctness gone too far" was just a tool for everyone to use, to excuse themselves from having to solve anything, because trying to solve anything felt uncomfortable. As such, I saw emotions as nothing more than an obstacle to reasonable thinking, and I just shut them all out of my conscious mind. As for myself? I had my cold, hard logic intact, just like I wanted, but during that time, I was doing nothing to solve the problems I could see with said cold, hard logic. This was, unfortunately, compounded by my sense of self-worth. Due to various "identity" issues involving personal growth being wasted in directions that were just plain wrong, including my childhood (back then, I really was crazy, and the people here saw the death throes of that insanity almost a decade ago) and the fake personae I had to adopt just to get through high school, I had no personal development that I could actually use, and so, when I was finally free from the social pressures of my teenage years, I tried for the first time to just be myself, and all I could see of myself was weakness and worthlessness. Without going into too much detail about how little that changed for the next four years, I ended up repressing a lot of anger when a group of so-called "friends" turned out to be psychopaths (manipulative ones, as described before), and last fall, when they finally pushed me too far, I stood up to them (in case you're wondering, even though I knew, even back then, that force is the only option when dealing with a psychopath, I couldn't be violent with them even if I had intended to be, all things considered). Dealing with them meant that, for the first time in my life, I had not just stood up for the ideals I always wanted to uphold, but I had also, in the same situation, shed a delusion (that these people were my friends, or even redeemable people), and faced an uncomfortable truth (that they were actually psychopaths).

That experience changed me, though I couldn't see it at first. For a while, I kept telling myself that I was still the same person I was, someone who wanted to die, but didn't have the guts to kill himself (as I had been as a child, since I was six years old; I actually remember threatening suicide when things got really bad during the initial fiasco here, but in truth, that was nothing special; I figured, if I really wanted to die anyway, I might as well accomplish something, anything at all, with a suicide I felt was probably inevitable). Yet, while I was telling myself these things, I had started to take on trolls on the internet (I started on the Atheist Republic FB page, where John Fontes had been a nuisance for so long), declaring a personal war on any shameless bully who just wanted to make people suffer and hold the world back by beating down anyone who tried improving things (Yes, I'd say that you people are bullies, and yes, I also made some heart-felt confessions of my flaws to Fontes whenever my flaws resulted in mistakes, and it didn't take this long, either. Never mind the fact that I was still one of the few people he truly feared to go up against in a debate, even after said confessions; instead, think about the fact that I made my first such confession about a week after I first engaged John Fontes in conversation, compared to how long it's taken me to open up in the same way to you guys.). About two months ago, after all of this energy and vigor started to build up, I realized that, now that I was finally standing up for my ideals, I was feeling again, and the two fed on each other, and helped each other grow.

And now, the confession: With these emotions being so new to me, and yet so euphoric and powerful, I was far too hasty, and yes, maybe even unwittingly narcissistic, just by talking about my refutation in the grand way I did. The "treasure" can tell you what my refutation truly is, and what it will be until I gather some of the data I've scattered on FB and compile it into a presentable form, completely replacing what I've already given here. I have to own up to this problem, and face it, just like you all have your problems to own up to, and face.

 

I think this has gone on quite far enough... all I'm seeing is large swaths of text and "woe is me" without any attempt at actual discussion. This isn't some social media site.

If half of what you have said in this last post is true, Jadebrain, then do yourself a favor and get psychiatric help - take it from someone who knows (I attempted suicide roughly a dozen times in my childhood/youth) - that is the kind of shit that stays with you, and you can either make peace with it and overcome it, or it will eat you away from the inside. However, nobody on this forum is (or can be proven to be) trained and certified to provide that kind of help.