Cost of modern medications & Real ecconomics(vacine & common med costs)

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by RainbowSingularity, Jul 25, 2020.

  1. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,153
    those who may loosely follow the news may have heard that the us has pledged to address medication costs
    as a prohibitive process to health care access at an economic level.

    GREAT NEWS !

    The irony of having top quality science that the working class cant afford is a somewhat sad position

    prohibitive pricing by exclusivity verses
    profit prioritization to fastest net return

    it is a extremely complex subject which effects all countrys

    what countrys cant afford to NOT have a covid vaccine ?
    equally
    Flu vaccines
    which countrys cant NOT afford to have Flu vaccines ?
    is it parable ?(discussion point not a question)

    sane informed thoughts and logical sane questions invited
     
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  3. mathman Valued Senior Member

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    It seems that it is a lot less of a problem outside U.S.A.
     
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  5. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    6,153
    im not about to be gamed into proxy ass kissing the usa(or any other country)
    if your wondering
    (you should post your comment on cultural economic differences)
    throw away comments can be "co-pay"buried in mass covid 19 graves
    (co-pay" is the usa term for hidden profiteering on top of the forced private health systems forced private insurance system)

    it is used to cover up and lie about the true cost of health care




    it may seem that way
    but ...
    the core economic system is fairly similar in all countrys
    it just leans different ends of the scale toward hyper control which limits access
    or hyper pricing which limits access
    or hyper lack of money to turn it into a product without surrendering the intellectual property profit.
    all to maintain a profit system that appears on the outside to be unsustainable for the reality of the issue

    how many trillion has the world economy now lost to covid 19 ?
    no one wants to put a number on it
    i may roughly calculate it just out of personal interest

    but the global economy was shrinking
    at a rate of around 1.75% per year steady for the last 5 years.
     
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,534
    For a country that seems to pride itself on being great, and the so called leader of the free world, you are sometimes incredibly insensitive and with that old "fuck you Jack, I'm alright" attitude.
    In Australia, along with our general health scheme, we have what is called the "Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme"or the PBS.
    Most drugs and medicines are heavily subsidised, with maximum payments of around 40 dollars or so per drug. Pensioners and retirees are compensated that the maximum fee is $6 per drug, and both have an annual safety net cap of around $ 400 from memory. I have never reached it as yet.
    All workers pay a 1.5% to 2% levy each year to subsidise the medical and hospital scheme plus the PBS. So so simple, but probably far to leftist for the likes of a couple of our vociferous gun toting rednecks that frequent the forum.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,534
    In Australia, at most local GP's offices, free, at chemists $20, for pensioners and retirees, free.
    I had my coronavirus detection test last Wednesday and got the results back on last Friday....clear as a bell.
     
  9. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 71 years old Valued Senior Member

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    My 4 week holiday Bali has become almost 5 months

    Sort of Lucky I caught up with those I had arranged to catch up with in the first 3 weeks

    Also very lucky the last one I caught up with is a pearl. So for the last few months has been like being on honeymoon again

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    Neither of us have been tested but neither have had any symptoms of anything and neither are on any medications

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  10. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    6,153
    the illusion of something being free
    verses the illusion of liberty
    all forms of human existence are a compromise

    logical average intelligence adults should know that universal health care is not free health care

    its like calling cars a name by the sound they make without audible distinction
    like small children do
    "broom broom"
    "Vroom Vroom" is not a free car
    equally there is no such thing as free health care

    you realize you are consciously[or emotionally subconsciously which is completely normal] avoiding the question...
    how should i respond ?

    while i clearly illustrate a moral comparison to seek a reply to the core principals of economic system
    the question to form the question stands unanswered

    "which countrys can not NOT afford a flu & covid 19 vaccine ?"

    Australia can not NOT afford to have the Flu and covid vaccine
    equally USA UK China India most of Europe Russia probably(yet to see how covid reacts in very cold climates and with colder climates people self isolate as a natural process of seasonal habits)

    south America is going to be laid to waste by covid
    equally possible Africa
    but they cant afford a vaccine ?
    (unless someone gives it to them for free[quantitative easing to produce covid & flu vaccine])

    imagine that as a 1st in history
    it makes sense ... logically ... but not with a pure user pays capitalist system.

    catch up with the conversation if you can
    i understand if you dont have the time

    subjective example for comparison model
    can we apply a market test to simply quantify removing the Flu vaccine and see how that effects modern society
    is it economically logical ?
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
  11. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 71 years old Valued Senior Member

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    I would consider once I have exhausted the amount of money I have contributed to the healthcare system (Australia) the rest becomes free

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  12. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    6,153
    Some rough numbers to get an idea of where the price is likely to start from
    i would guess it would have a premium placed on it of roughly 300%

    in the USA it would likely have no medicaid funding
    and be listed as a pre existing condition voluntary so non claimable



    300% price equivalent

    = $210.00 US$

    https://blog.cheapism.com/flu-shot-cost-cvs-walgreens-walmart/#slide=1

    i Rough Guess it will take around another 18 months before a vaccine is coming off a production line anywhere in enough numbers to start distributing to a population
    unless some megga rich person decides to build a big factory and buy licensing rights to produce it
    but that is extremely unlikely


     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
  13. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    6,153
    not a popular topic ?

    150,000,000 USA people
    get the flu vaccination every year

    what would it cost if they simply cancelled that ?
    probably quite a bit
    interesting rolling the idea around of how words are familiarized in the media and applied for terms of moral financial purpose
    (this is economics)

    effectively one could flip the poles on this money process and suggest that workers were subsidizing the medical industry profit system on its net profit returns

    but the point of the point would be lost on most

    can't not afford ...

    = critical mechanism of economic system

    the flu vaccine is a critical part of the global economic system

    why such stalling and nay saying about corona virus ?

    is it a game of someone elses problem paradox ? possibly mixed together with sheer greed and elitism(many think they will simply be able to purchase a cure with their elitist wealth position(price exclusivity)

    i dont see that working

    who is saying it will ?
     
  14. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,534
    I really havn't a clue what you are rambling about, but simply put again, the Australian health care system and our PBS scheme, is paid for by the workers under a two tier system depending on earning......a system that is accompanied by voluntary health insurance at the whim of the individual [which covers extras like private ward etc] that is for all citizens of Australia, including the unemployed, and/or retired pensioners as well as the contributing worker.
    It was originally established in 1972 by the first elected Labor government in 23 years, led by our greatest ever PM Gough Whitlam.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,534
    Whatever tickles your fancy.

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    Again most GP's give the flu injection for free, and coupled with the fee for the doctor's visit, which again most GP's bulk bill the government for, meaning the patient pays no up front fee.
    The covid 19 detections tests are free. That's the situation in Australia.
    Got it?

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    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  16. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,534
    Obviously the sensible logical Australian health care system and PBS is probably not perfect [not sure what is] and we have had noises made by intervening conservative governments [in our country called the Liberal/National Country Party] making various attempt to dismantle this program...mostly they fail, as the general population, the voters understand what a great all encompassing scheme it is, and any attempts to weaken or dismantle it, would see that government quickly thrown out on its ear at the next election.
     
  17. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,153
    if it were "free" there would be no profit in it
    you may find yourself getting lost in your social morality while i am attempting to discus the economics of it.
    economics is defined by policy's, mathematics, equations & systems
     
  18. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,534
    Not sure where you get this silly social morality from, it is simply fact.

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    The economics of it is simply a 1.5% to 2.5% tax depending on one's annual salary. That contribution/tax has changed over the years since 1972, to reflect any rising health costs.
    This is then used to fund all medical, hospital and PBS requirements of all Australian citizens.
    Now what is it you are trying to economically define?
     
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,848
    The Moderna corporation has stated that they will be pricing their vaccine - which has reached a late stage of development with great promise - high enough to earn a healthy profit.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/27/mod...ward-for-coronavirus-vaccine-development.html
    The US taxpayer has already kicked in over 950 million dollars in direct subsidy to Moderna's efforts on this one vaccine, and of course made available for free the enormous body of related basic research and medical education and so forth that the US taxpayer has been supporting for many decades now.
     
  20. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,153
    45 million American adults cant afford health care
    statistically(reality) they should all have roughly 0.75 to 1.25 children
    so that is 90 million Americans who simply can not afford a vaccine
    including between 1 to 2 child per adult
    90 million USA children who cant afford the vaccine

    will they make the vaccine compulsory if they want to go to school ?
    possibly

    profit before people is their system(economics)

    the question is do their economics work ?
    sinking lid population die off policy ?(looks like that is their game plan)
    that is india game plan because they simply cant do anything else with such a massive population
    vast people movement and massive lack of utilities and hospitals.

    sad fact of reality
    they have to just ride it out until a vaccine becomes cheap enough

    Moderna's efforts
    they dont know if it works
    they probably wont concern themselves with that
    as long as it shows a % gain for resistance then it will be sold on bulk to make profit even though it is not an actual vaccine
    instead a booster shot to the immune system
    assuming the usa govt buys it then sells it at a loss to all the private health care companys in the usa
    i dare not think of all that stuff its mind boggling(playing god for cash with millions of lives)

    the economics of the question seems to have been poked at

    we shall see what the price is & if it is priced with exclusive co-pay price gouging that puts it out of reach of the advertised consumer group (those who paid for it already)
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
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  21. Dennis Tate Registered Senior Member

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    I'm a red neck and have owned guns in the past but I like the sound of the way you Australians are doing this. (I am Canadian though so I guess that that makes me somewhat biased).
     
  22. Dennis Tate Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    845

    I could be wrong.....
    I often am but I am of the belief that the national debts of the USA and Canada are significantly a practical joke played on ninety nine point nine percent of the population by the ten million or so most intelligent employees, lawyers, economists and journalists of the eight thousand five hundred wealthiest people on earth who tend to be somewhat neo-Malthusian in their economic philosophy.
     
  23. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,153
    i shall re ask the question
    feel free to discuss other aspects

    which country's(if any[my opinion is a vaccine will be compulsory for all country's]) can afford to NOT have a vaccine for SAR'SCoV-2 ?



    how do you build a 4th gen stealth fighter(weapons for WW2. lend/lease cold war nuclear weapons, spy agencys etc)
    1st you must print your own money to pay people with a currency to work for you for free

    so you have the elite group in control
    printing money with no asset backing
    to pay for a cost as a loss
    there is no asset wealth of profit making involved

    so it is a capitalists lie
    fake capitalism

    the money is soo big it attracts lots of people

    but how do you hide the money & fool people into thinking it is some type of fair process where even the little guy can make it big in the big ol amerika ?
    privatise the government departments

    then build elitist political partys as social class groups of control & trend
    who control the validity of those fake systems as a cult like social culture at the top who dictate social media as celebrity popularity greed & desire.
    elitist liberal conservatives

    the cart has run away with the donkey

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    consumer lending owns the world
    mortgages
    personal lending

    not entirely

    so the mechanism designed to create a system of economics to deliver lending to the working class.
    so big corporations can make trillions and borrow those trillions at the working class cost
    has been gamed soo much by the immoral leadership & elitist business people
    that the cart now controls the donkey
    and sheople are indoctrinated from childhood to believe that is the only logical system and that it is perfectly fair and has its own independent form of morals
    separate to basic community human morals, or religious morals which are a 3rd entirely separate set of morals.

    butt how do you sell that corrupted system to your hoards ?
    call it liberal freedoms
    give them guns(2nd amendment)
    & never oppose any concepts of moral social inequality(endorse institutionalized racism as a separate self validating culture)

    now all working class poor in amerika
    are born owing the government money, that has been given at the poor working class cost, to rich elite industrialists and elitist groups of liberal conservatives

    nothing is free unless your rich
    and THAT is the economic social culture in amerika
    THAT is why you see rich people walking around grabbing peoples genitals and taking anything they want


    you will clearly notice some posters on this board are brain washed into this type of privileged elitist indoctrinated false moral false economical reality
    its quite common i various groups
    it tends to be more typical in upper middle class privilege males

    you will also notice that toxic patriarchal masculinity is their default moral social culture model

    which country's
    (if any[my opinion is a vaccine will be compulsory for all country's]) can afford to NOT have a vaccine for SAR'SCoV-2 ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2021 at 1:12 AM
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