Covid-19 Virus Vàriants?

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by KUMAR5, Jun 13, 2021.

  1. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    923
    Hello,
    Greetings!

    "All viruses, including SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, change over time. Most changes have little to no impact on the virus’ properties. However, some changes may affect the virus’s properties, such as how easily it spreads, the associated disease severity, or the performance of vaccines, therapeutic medicines, diagnostic tools, or other public health and social measures. "
    https://www.who.int/en/activities/tracking-SARS-CoV-2-variants/

    Most regilar details about Covid variants are given on above link, so no use to repeat here. However I just want to know more, what can be the main cause/s to getting variants of a virus?, Can it be due to:-
    1. Evolution
    2. Natural selection
    3. Random mutations
    4. Status of our Natural immune response
    5. Our interventions(preventive or treatments
    6. Other?

    All above or some of above should have been definately responsible for getting such variants which we can discuss.

    Best wishes.
     
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  3. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    10,798
    1, 2, 3 and 6 are the main factors, 2 and 3 because they are part of 1 and 6 because a huge contributor that you do not mention is the prevalence of the virus in the population.

    This is one of the principal reasons why control of the spread, though infection countermeasures and vaccination, is so important.

    But you know this, of course. The object of this thread is to have yet another go at manufacturing arguments against vaccination, isn't it?

    This is getting very tedious.
     
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  5. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    923

    Welcome and thanks. Can't 2 and 3 be accidental so these seprate from no 1. Like in cancer random mutations from prevailing environment are accidental and these are acquired and do not come under evolution. Natural selectíon may also be accidental. Yes, pandemic or epidemic is also a big reason to getting variants.


    Yes, but it is not to go against vaccination or any treatment but I simply want to understand more about responsible reasons. Whether resistsnce or restrictions to the natural survival or growth of virus can be a reason to getting its variants? It is not limited to vaccination but also cover preventive measures, natural imnune response, treatments, vaccination etc.
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    20,163
    No. Evolution happens for two reasons. One, organisms (viruses, bacteria, mammals) mutate and change their phenotype. Two, natural selection selects those best suited to survive. Take away mutation and the organism never changes. Take away natural selection (and replace it with, say, artificial selection) and you have breeding, not evolution.
    Sure they do. Organisms very prone to cancer do not survive; natural selection kills them off before they reproduce.
    Natural selection is a process that is not accidental, by definition. It selects organisms capable of reproducing. There is, of course, a lot of random chance involved.
     
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  8. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    923
    How you said below, there is of course lot of random chance involved? Whether such random chance will not oppose natural selection of survival of fittest?

    Do you mean kills within in one's lifetime or kills his reproduction? I think, reproduction is not affected due to cancer.

    How random and accidental are different in sense?
     
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    20,163
    Because it's random with respect to fitness. And time averages that randomness. What remains is the bias of fitness.
    Do you know of any dead animals that give birth?
     
  10. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    923
    How randomness to fitness can be possible? Should not randomness be just accidental (natural or manmade) whereas fitness pre informed?
    No but cancer patients can still reproduce after acquiring cancer but before death due to cancer. Moreover usually, it is also not a genetic or inherited disease. So, how natural selection is involved in it? Yes probably, we can assume it is leading us to be evolved to become hardy due to various changed odd exposures.
     
  11. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    923
    The effects of virus variants on COVID-19 vaccines
     
  12. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    These questions of yours are unbelievably basic.

    Since you apparently have no clue how evolution by natural selection works, you will be quite incapable of understanding anything about the topic of this thread - or indeed the others you have previously started on the subject of SARS-CoV-2.
     
  13. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    923
    Sorry to hurt you. However, how it is not accidental?
    "Mutations are changes in the structure of the molecules that make up genes, called DNA. The mutation of genes is an important source of genetic variation within a population. Mutations can be random (for example, when replicating cells make an error while copying DNA), or happen as a result of exposure to something in the environment, like harmful chemicals or radiation.

    Mutations can be harmful, neutral, or sometimes helpful, resulting in a new, advantageous trait."
     
  14. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    Nobody denies that mutations can be "accidental". But you asked how this randomness can lead to fitness.

    The unbelievably basic and obvious answer to that is "natural selection". Go and read what natural selection is before you ask any more of these damned fool questions.

    You have no business posting technical articles about SARS-CoV-2, or challenging the safety of vaccines, if you do not even understand what natural selection is.
     
  15. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    923
    Adaptive traits—traits that give them some advantage—are more likely to survive and reproduce. I think in some sense it is just survival of fittest.
     
  16. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    10,798
    Then you have answered your own question: that's how randomness can lead to fitness. Durrh.

    Are you just wasting our time here?
     
  17. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    923
    Actually, I am not comfortsble to accept randomness is the only basis of evolution. Randomness is a passive happening but active acts also happen which can also evolve.
    Further I just to inform you, all routine understandings are very well available on google. No sense of rewiring those. Since no understsnding is yet absolute and final in science, it should be a need and worth to discuss those differentky snd logicalky. O usually tend to fo it, so may look bit odd or out of dubject. But serching even wildly, can give domething new.
     
  18. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    The Pale horse of Revelations is coming.
     
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    20,163
    It's not - as several of us have explained to you.
     
  20. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    20,163
    And Saint pops in to the discussion to say "But I want a cookie!"
     
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  21. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    923
    Thanks. What then will it be called when our natural immunity or immunization or various interventions are the cause tó getting such mutations?

    Will these be classified under induced mutations?
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    20,163
    Evolution.
    Nope. If the vaccines were radioactive (which they are not) you might legitimately call them induced mutations. But since the various vaccines will do absolutely nothing to cause mutations, no one will say something so foolish.
     
  23. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    923
    Whatever interventions which anyway resist or restrict normal survival and growth of virus etc., Why can not be a reson to getting mutations for their survivals and growth? By deep thinking, these may be real causes other than random mutations.

    Look for example, if someone attack you, following usually happen:
    Either you kill him or defeat hit. If you kill him, matter can either be over or his near ones tske revenge from you by acquiring additional power.
    If you defeat him. Either he will leave and run away for ever or take revenge by acquiring additional power.
    In both cases, fight is the root cause.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021

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