Creationist questions evolution

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Jan Ardena, Nov 10, 2018.

  1. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    3,299
    Belief will always be more powerful then logic or reason. With no belief you have nothing. Imagine if you didn't have the belief to write your question, you wouldn't of wrote it. Whether you admit it or not, everyone believes in themselves, just some battles you lose, like losing the confidence in yourself..
     
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  3. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    I can. But that would be a waste of time for me.

    I don’t need you’re dodgy teaching to understand what is termed microevolution. So why do you think I need you’re dodgy teaching for the Darwinian story?

    There are no errors.
    So far, Darwinian evolution is an article of faith. There is no evidence for it, unless you can provide some now.

    There are no distinctions James.
    You need to provide real evidence, if you want this idea to be accepted.

    Did the wolf ancestor look like a wolf? Is that what you’re saying?
    I’m only interested in something that nobody could possibly characterise it as a wolf. Just like the crackpot idea of whale evolution.

    I’m not doing reasearch on your religion.
    Either tell me what creature the wolf/dog evolved from, or don’t.
    Personally I know you can’t, so I’m not going to hold my breath.

    We’re having this discussion now. I am asking the question now.
    If you cannot answer the questions, not only does it show the nature of those previous discussions, but it puts to bed, right now, that Darwinian evolution, is nothing more than a religion. It’s done. Get over it.

    Help yourself James.

    My time is also limited.
    So just produce this evidence, without all the dialogue.

    Jan.
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    If you cannot answer the question, not only does it show the nature of those previous discussions, but it puts to bed, right now, the idea that your religious creationist beliefs have any basis other than blind belief.
    "Macroerosion" is the same as "microerosion." It is just bigger and happens over a longer time frame.
    "Macroevolution" is the same as "microevolution." It is just more significant and happens over a longer time frame.
    Here is some concrete evidence, organisms that have evolved and speciated during recorded history:

    Evening Primrose (Oenothera gigas)
    Kew Primrose (Primula kewensis)
    Raphanobrassica
    Hemp Nettle (Galeopsis tetrahit)
    Madia citrigracilis
    Brassica
    Maidenhair Fern (Adiantum pedatum)
    Woodsia Fern (Woodsia abbeae)
    Stephanomeira malheurensis
    Yellow Monkey Flower (Mimulus guttatus)
    Fruit fly (Drosophila paulistorum)

    You can deny science all you like. It's much harder to deny that an organism exists when it is sitting there staring at you.
    Easy. A chihuahua.
    Easy. A creature called Canis Lepophagus. We have the fossil proof.
     
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  7. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    This one's really tedious.
     
  8. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Given that you are an atheist, and Darwinian evolution is your religion, I accept that it is difficult to come up with your own written material, hence the plagiarising.

    So the religion stipulates.
    Now all you have to do is show that it takes place.

    Not good enough.
    I’m talking about something becoming an entirely different creature. Something like whale evolution.

    Darwinian evolution isn’t science, as it cannot be observed. Get over it.

    Try again

    If a five year old were asked to describe a picture of this dog/wolf, do you think they would see it as a dog? If not. What would they describe it as?

    Jan.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  9. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Good!
    You wouldn’t want to deal with some who’s all compliant and stuff. Would you?

    Then again, maybe you would.

    Jan.
     
  10. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    12,112
    Are you a musician ?
    What is your main instrument ?

    Jan.
     
  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    15,850
    Wrong again!
    Nope. Simple logic.

    "Microerosion" uses exactly the same processes as "macroerosion." In a short time frame you get a gulley in your back yard. In a medium time frame you get the Delaware Water Gap. In a long time frame you get the Grand Canyon.

    "Microevolution" uses exactly the same processes as "macroevolution." In a short time you get a modern human from an ancestor that looks a lot like us. In a medium time frame you get a modern human from an ancestor that looks like an ape. In a long time frame you get a modern human from an ancestor that looks like a shrew.
    Done.
    In that case - whale evolution, from indohyus to humpback whale. And we even have all the fossils to prove it.
    I listed a bunch of examples above where we DID observe it. You lose again!
    Probably as a coyote. (It was about the same size, and both coyotes and wolves evolved from it.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  12. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    4,665
    If we have always been
    There are no new things
    You can only learn new things
    It follows that learning is obsolete in a singularity
     
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  13. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    You are just babbling, so there's nothing for me to "would".
     
  14. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    I don’t recall discussing “my religion” with you.
    Secondly, let’s say my religion was Christianity, how would something that is a natural phenomenon, be a threat to it.
    Would you see “evolution” as it currently scientifically observed (micro), a potential threat, to my religion?

    Actually, evolution, as currently observed, fits exactly with the“sacred” text of the bible.

    “Evolution” is not really a consideration, as it works naturally.
    Darwinian evolution is a concoction, which has turned into a religion. If it is true (), show it. That’s all I’m asking.

    Not condescending at all! No!

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    Yeah! Because we need to “establish a god exists”! That’s how it works in atheist land. Hey

    *shakes head*

    Jan.
     
  15. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    I’m not babbling.
    And furthermore, you know it.

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    Jan.
     
  16. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    You're babbling. You're an attention seeker, just a child.
     
  17. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    I thought that was elegant.
     
  18. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Jan:

    Imagine, for a second, how amazing the World has been in the past! Amazing creatures! And terrifying ones! Man? that's a work in progress. But the animals. Free your imagination of whatever God stuff you've stuffed up there and imagine again!
     
  19. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Jan: Imagining too much might do your head in though. It does mine, especially evolution.
     
  20. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Correct, which is a subset of Rational land. Here's why:

    There are an infinite number of things we could talk about in a hypothetical manner without first establishing that they exist.

    But to have a meaningful conversation about God - or the life cycle of unicorns - we would first want to establish that they're not just fiction. Otherwise it's all hypothetical.
     
  21. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    I mean, did the world become a less terrifying one(animal wise) when man showed up and wrote about there exploits.
     
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Sure. The difference is: believing in things that can be checked.

    Things that can't be checked we leave to philosophers. Here on a science board, we don't try to assert beliefs we can't verify.
     
  23. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Yes. We no longer write "Hyere Be Dragons" on our maps.
     

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