Cropping/Docking vs Circumcision

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Orleander, Oct 10, 2009.

  1. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I read a lot about men complaining about circumcisions and how wrong it is. How their parents/doctors did it to them when they had no say so. Its unethical because it served no medical reason.

    I have to wonder, is this the same reason why cropping/docking of dog tails/ears is wrong as well? Or does amputating a dogs ears/tail serve a purpose? I'm thinking it serves no purpose since its outlawed in so many countries while circumcisions aren't.
     
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  3. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Last edited: Oct 11, 2009
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  5. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Lord love a duck Enmos, I think what you show is a medical reason. I'm not talking about circumcisions due to medical reasons.
     
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  7. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Oh ok, I took it a different way. I thought you meant that circumcisions are unethical because they serve no medical reasons.
     
  8. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    so how to you feel about docking/cropping? Is it illegal where you live? Is circumcision illegal?
     
  9. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not a hundred percent sure. The government says it's not illegal, but there have been some court rulings that said that it's a severe form of mistreatment.

    Docking/cropping of ears and tail is illegal here and in a number of other European countries that I know of. It is allowed for medical reasons of course but it still has to be reported.
     
  10. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    As a child I had a dog who had to have its tail cut off. It was hit by a car and its tail got caught and all the hair/muscle got stripped. All that was left was bone. It made it a bit harder for her to swim.
     
  11. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    That was a pretty good reason to dock.
    It's called docking where the tail is concerned and cropping where the ears are concerned, right?
     
  12. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I think the terms are interchangeable
     
  13. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    It's cosmetic. So it's the same thing to me, except one is your pet and another your child. But neither is illegal where I live.
     
  14. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I don't like the thought of mutilating a pet just so I think they look prettier.

    My husband wanted to declaw our cats and I was horrified. Growing up, his family's house cats were declawed. He didn't know their paws were chopped off at the first knuckle. Our cats are fully clawed.
     
  15. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    Same here.
     
  16. backtoreality Registered Senior Member

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    Docking a dogs tail when they are a puppy has no medical reason...it is just a "breed standard." Such as dobermans, boxers and poodles...in order to show them they need to have their tails a certain length. Ear cropping is completely cosmetic. People like to crop their dogs ears because it makes them look "mean," so they can "protect" the house. People do this to dobermans and pit bulls a lot of the time. It is extremely painful and requires the ears to be bandaged for several months in order for the ears to stay up.

    My husband and I are expecting our first child, a son, in January. My husband wants him to be circumcised, while I am trying to decide if its really a good idea. It will help keep him cleaner down there, but it is also painful and if we teach him to keep it clean then it might not be necessary.
     
  17. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    umm orleander as far as im awear tail docking is illegal in Australia. When i first read the title i thought you were talking about sheep and i was going to say "well it does stop them getting fly blown" but thats not relivent if its dogs your talking about. That has (or should be) banned because dogs communicate with there tails.

    On a side note i actually had to get my cats tail amputated because of trauma and i asked the vet was it like having a dogs tail removed (ie did they need it) and she said no
     
  18. Bells Staff Member

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    Congratulations on the impending birth.

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    I have two sons and neither of them are circumcised. The eldest is 4 years of age and the youngest is 2. And I can say that thus far, we have never had a single issue with keeping it clean. We don't really need to do anything at all really. Our 4 year old has been taught about how to clean himself by my husband once his foreskin could be safely pulled back (it can damage the foreskin if you attempt to pull it back when they are babies) and we found out if could after he did it himself without pain one day in the shower. From that day, my husband patiently told him how to clean it and now it is normal for him to do it himself. Our youngest is not yet able to do it. And we've never had any issues with his either - except for when he was bitten by an ant right on the tip of his penis.. Which he got by sitting on an ants nest when trying to dig dirt.. *sigh*..

    My advice, if you feel it is necessary to have it done, wait until they are a bit older and able to have the proper anaesthetics. They tend to avoid giving it to newborns and locals can still be excruciatingly painful and the procedure itself distressful to the baby - babies hate being held or tied down and held still and it can be stressful for them and for the parents.

    Speak to your doctor about whether the procedure is actually necessary and research the pros and cons of it. And both you and your husband need to keep an open mind. It is easy to keep the penis clean.. hell in the first couple of years you don't need to do anything at all except soap up the whole are with baby soap.
     
  19. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    bells your being much more neutral than i would be answering that. My comment would be, "unless the doctors are telling you its MEDICALLY nessary because of an abnormality, then DONT"

    On UTIs though in my whole life i cant rember ONE that i have had. My partner on the other hand has had 2 (at least) in the time i have known her. Its VERY rare in boys because the urithra is so much longer (and there for away from the anus) than it is in girls. The penis naturally releaces a mucus which protects it from damage and infection just like every other orifice in the body does but if you remove the skin it cant work the way its surposed to
     
  20. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I was hoping this would be a docking/cropping thread and not a circumcision thread. I was just hoping for some of the circumcision haters opinion on animal cutting.

    Asguard, would the sheep need it if they weren't being raised in Australia? Is it a problem with the sheep in England?
     
  21. CheskiChips Banned Banned

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    Well...people go through plastic surgery. This is basically the dog form of that. Dogs are probably less vain...but does a vain person willing to do cosmetic surgery on themselves have right to do it to their dog? I think so.
     
  22. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    and their children as well apparently. I knew an 8 year old who had a nose job. Not because she broke it or couldn't breathe, but because her mother didn't like it. She said her daughter would be grateful when she grew up. I think that's crazy, but whatever not my kid.
     
  23. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    They also dock tails for fighting - that feeds in to the drive to get it banned in many places.
    One of our Jack Russells (Parson Russells) had her tail docked before we got her - which is odd because not only is it not breed standard, the tails are actually used as a "handle" to pull them out of fox holes. They were bred as hunting dogs, and they corner foxes into their holes, head-first. The only way to get an aggressive Jack Russell out of a fox hole is to grab it by the tail and drag it out.
    I haven't a clue why they docked her tail.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2009

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