dangers of led lighting

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by sculptor, Feb 9, 2017.

  1. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    please see:

    so what do you think of Dr. Wunsch's reasoning?
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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    I think I need to see it written down.
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  5. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Agree with iceaura. Give us your synopsis of the main point(s) and we can discuss. I'm not wasting 36 mins of my time to watch some video of unknown provenance.

    If what you write is interesting enough we may even feel motivated to watch bits of the video - if it not too long-winded.

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  7. MacGyver1968 Fixin' Shit that Ain't Broke Valued Senior Member

    Hmm...let's do the math: 93k views...only 23 comments..and all positive.

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    That's a good sign of woo.

    I watched a few minutes of it. Sounds like pure woo to me. Some German guy is throwing out a bunch of advanced biology terms that the average person couldn't understand, but what I gathered from it, he's basically saying that light in 500-700 nm range (the near infrared) is responsible for creating a large part of the body's ATP. Since apparently LED lights don't emit this frequency range of light, we won't produce the energy we need. He also goes on to say that near infrared radiation from light bulbs contribute to our body heat. I'm pretty sure that's woo in it's refined, purest form.


    if you don't want to watch the video, you can read his claims here:
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
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  8. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Thanks for ferreting this out. Yes, he's a crank all right. It's quite funny: he seems to think the lack of near IR emission of LEDs is injurious to health, ignoring the fact that for hundreds of thousands of years before Thomas Edison there was practically no artificial light at all - just a few candles or the odd fire.

    Toodle-oo, I'm a teapot.
  9. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member


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    I suspected that when I saw you at the Mad Hatters Tea Party

    Add my thanks for those ferreting this out

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  10. ajanta Registered Senior Member

    And if the radiation gonna disturb.... then refraction can separate IR from visible wavelength(led light) then to absorb IR by absorber, that I think.
  11. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    My personal astrologer says only use candles made of bees wax.
    Whats the doctors angle?

    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  12. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    I haven't watched the video, so maybe this is included in that, but it sounds not:
    Interestingly an article by the BBC raised other dangers or issues with LED lighting - specifically with regard street lighting affecting a person's ability to get to sleep.


    To me the obvious solution: close your ****ing curtains!

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  13. billvon Valued Senior Member


    From his page:

    "However, the heat generated by incandescent light bulbs, which is infrared radiation, is actually beneficial to your health, and hence worth the extra cost. "

    Fluorescent lights - which people have lived with for decades - generates no IR radiation.
    "Northern light" - the sort of light desired by artists and architects, and which people live with for decades - generates no IR radiation.

    "The sun, for example, which has a color temperature of 5,500 K, has a temperature of 5,500 K at its surface, were you to actually touch the sun. Incandescent lamps have a maximum of 3,000 K, as the filament would melt if the temperature got any higher. "

    Back "in the day" incandescent lamps for photography and television studios ran at 5000K.
  14. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    as/re Why I got into this and asked you to come along:
    Long ago we studied the effects of various light colors on the human psyche.
    (damned if I know where I stored those papers, or if I even still have them.....?)
    so part of those from memory

    Blue light was seen to seem to be invigorating much like having a cup of coffee-----------but interfered with sleep if exposure was within 2 hrs of "bedtime".
    green was relaxing and may have helped with bowel movements
    red made people feel healthier and sexier--------after significant exposure to red light, most people reported a feeling of well being.
    (we also tested combinations-----------don't remember)
    We never looked at infrared

    Ignoring the messenger, could there be some truth either directly or indirectly in the message?
    Did millions of years of campfires condition our circadian rhythms to be better equipped for sleep after exposure to red/orange/ and ir?
    Or is this something that predates mastery of fire?

    I suspect that exposure to different light frequencies at different times of the day could be of benefit for productivity, comradery, comfort, digestion and sleep and more.
    For every goal there may be an optimum light frequency?(or combination thereof?)

    Would the night shift(and night time drivers and pilots, etc...)be more alert with blue vs other colored lights?
    Do different light colors have any effect on blind people?
  15. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    LED lights can emit different colors, I guess we could tune it to the appropriate color at the appropriate time.
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Yep. If people were worried about the lack of near infrared, they could easily add some 850nm LED's to their lights. If they were worried about the AC flicker they could add capacitance to the lamp. And lights would cost four times what they do now, and take 30% more power.

    (Something tells me that very soon Dr. Wunsch will be selling "healthy" lights for the low low price of $69.95 each - guaranteed to make you feel better!)
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  17. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Some folks suffer from sad(seasonal affective disorder)

    Light therapy mimics natural outdoor light and appears to cause a change in brain chemicals linked to mood.

    Light therapy is one of the first line treatments for fall-onset SAD. It generally starts working in a few days to two weeks and causes few side effects. Research on light therapy is limited, but it appears to be effective for most people in relieving SAD symptoms.

    Ok is the light having an effect on individual skin cells, or only absorbed through the optic sensory array?
    is the effect organic, or is this placebo? (or combination thereof?)
  18. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

    Both, I think. We know skin cells produce signal chemicals that promote production of Vitamin D, and the optic pathways certainly do something similar. Without doing any fact-checking on myself, I think I remember the pineal gland is very closely related to the optic pathways, and has something to do with the diurnal clock..

    Sorry, I'm out of my BP meds, and need a nap.
  19. danshawen Valued Senior Member

    I'm an avid experimenter with lighting technology myself.

    It's probably true that blue LEDs (the efficient ones) can upset our circadian rhythm and inhibit melatonin production a bit, particularly if you use them in the evening, as most folks do nowadays. I seriously doubt if this would cause very much macular degeneration however. More likely, you simply aren't wearing any sunglasses when you go out into the sun. This happens a lot. Also the reason so many older folks eventually get melanomas. If you drive, it will come first on the side of your face next to the driver's side car window.

    If you read far enough into Dr. Wunsch's ideas, you will see that he is a proponent of OLED technology displays, primarily because they are capable of renderng a "truer black" pixel, which means less light is actually reaching your eyes.

    Be very, very careful about how you deploy UV-C sterilite equipment in HVAC ducts and elsewhere. It can cause severe corneal damage in seconds.

    When I took two of them out because their radiation shown through nearby vents, and turned my April Aire whole house humidifier (mostly plastic) into so much dust, I tried using one to sterilize a dress shoe that always seemed to give me a fungal infection. It completely destroyed the neoprene soles of the shoe in just a few minutes. It can do that to you, too. These things are lethal, and it does not take very much exposure to sterilize yourself into oblivion with them.

    Lots of lighting "gotchas" out there, if you're not careful, but I don't think the blue LED is really cause for much alarm, despite what Dr. Wunsch has to say about them.
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