Democratic Socialism In Venezuela

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by Michael, May 13, 2016.

  1. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    We'll have to wait until people are eating the zoo keepers - and then they'll still believe. Because Statism is a religion. So, then we wait, until they eat themselves.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    Betting on fossil fuels is a losing proposition these days, as we near or sail past peak oil. You can't be a one industry state. Any form of economic organization would have failed. They don't control the markets.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. ForrestDean Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    364
    I'm not aware of any free societies.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    Unless it's Venezuela's socialism, in which case the immediate failure of a strongman run third world economy blasted by a resource curse is enough to indict everything connected with the word by wingnut analogy.

    Banana republics under strongman rule and centralized economic control have failed under every economic system there is - from mercantile to socialist to communist to market capitalist to flat out piracy.
     
  8. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    I see that happening more with stateless anarchists.
     
  9. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    I believe you are confusing anarchism with barbarism. That said, and the irony, even barbarism isn't so base as to encourage cannibalism. The only evidence for cannibalism occurring is in Socialistic Worker's Paradises like North Korea (and now in Venezuela). You know your Socialism is pretty shit when outright Barbarism is superior in its ability to provide basic calories.

    That said, I will not be surprised to hear of cannibalism occurring in the USSA, just give it time. These things take awhile to play out.
     
  10. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    And North Korea, The People's Republic of China, the USSR, Cuba and etc... Socialism is a form of State based Authoritarianism. Of course it devolves into a Strong Man. This IS socialism. The use of violence against morally innocent people withing a State. Over time, you must have a strong man. Had B.Sanders been elected, we'd have moved too quickly to the day when functionally illiterate Americans cheer for their own Strong Man run Police State. Luckily, we'll probably just end up with WarHarpy and WWIII.
     
  11. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,003
    You forget that as long as you have oil, betting on oil gives even much more in a time past peak oil. Because past peak oil oil becomes more expensive. Those who have the last oil will gain the most.

    Of course, it is never good to depend only on one thing. Especially if this thing has a very volatile price.
     
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    None of those countries "devolved" into a strongman government. They started out that way.

    As did the failed rightwing tyrannies, of which we have many. No economic setup can survive centralized micromanagement of the economy for very long.

    Although Cuba has done better than most of its neighbors.

    Of course, you are talking to a market capitalist - wherever a market can be set up, I favor that method of resource allocation. I agree with Sweden's approach, in other words, or any of the other Scandinavian countrys's. So maybe I'm wrong?
     
  13. Ultron Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    245
    I would like to point out the major difference between Sweden (as example of EU country) and Venezuela. Sweden is market economy, where the price of goods is decided by offer and demand. There are financial subsidies on some goods like for example for milk, but government is not setting prices for goods.

    On the other hand Venezuela is not a market economy, because with the intention to help poor, government sets prices for wide range of goods and it also sets exchange rate to foreign currency. Some goods are subsidied, but some are not, and if some producer cannot produce the goods at the price set by government, it simply makes loss. This leads to stopping of production, for example of beer. Then government will accuse the producer of beer that it sabotages the economy and will confiscate the production plant and resume the loss producing production of beer and sell it at price set by government. But such economic strategy is simple stupid and not sustainable over long period. This economic strategy is causing shortage of goods, long queues for basic food and thriving black market. There is no other way - Venezuela has to introduce market economy (optionally with selected few subsidised goods) or it will go bankrupt within year.
     
  14. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    LOL

    This is just too good. So, the Canadian Teachers Union, which, incidentally, protects Government Public Servants /Government School Teachers from the Government. Think about that, the whole argument FOR Government Schools was to protect children from that big scary free-market / free society / free people. Now we have Government "Servants" being protected from Government, itself supposedly protecting the people - one big circle jerk. As the oxymoron's pile up, this is how "Progressive" "Democratic" or other forms of Socialism / State Authoritarianism play out.

    Now, get this, yeah, you won't believe it. Well, actually you will - it's baked in the cake.
    In Progressive Socialist Medical Paradise Canada: Teachers’ union urges schools use ‘comrade’ instead of ‘boy’ and ‘girl’.

    ROTFLMAO!!!

    Of course, of course.

    ALL Socialistic paradises have to resort to eliminating gender. That's a mental construct you silly Citizen of the Nation State. Now, go do your "duty" for the "good of the roads" and together comrades, 'we' will make the Workers Paradise a reality!

    LOL

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    HAHAHAHAHA!!!


    Seriously, it's just too funny.
    Bye Bye Canazuela

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    Let's see how long before Canadians are eating their zoo keepers.

    Oh, and I'm sure when this whole country goes belly up, there'll be iceaura blaming it on the free-market. Every one knows you can't have a free market in X, Y, Z and A, B , C. That's Econ 101 don't you know?



    ... comrades.... Pfffff.....hahahaha.... Oh Gods, too LOL!!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  15. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,451
    You are mad. There is zero evidence that Canada, of all countries, is about to go belly up.

    And in fact your obsession with bigoted junk news seems to have led you to blunder here. I can find no mention of the term "comrade" in the Alberta teacher's docment complained of, which is this one: https://www.teachers.ab.ca/SiteCollectionDocuments/ATA/Publications/Research/PD-80-15e PRISM.pdf

    It seems the entire story has been made up by your shitty news source. So you are apparently recycling a load of lies.

    Now that really is funny!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    You're actually going a bit crazy.

    While it's got to be difficult to be continually confronted with a world that refuses to behave as your preconceptions demand, that's no reason to just lose your shit completely like that.
     
  17. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    LOL
    If its a fake news story, then it got a laugh out of me. Because, as you well know, many US Universities (University of Michigan as an example) are indeed calling for the pronouns:
    HE/SHEHIM/HERHIS/HER
    zie zim zir
    sie sie hir
    ey em eir
    ve ver vis


    LOL - hell, I thought comrade was an improvement (and fitting, and funny!)

    That aside, in the real world, Venezuelan's living in their Progressive "Democratic" Socialistic Utopia are eating zoo animals. AND yes, they elected Hugo. He was a Democratically elected Public Servant.

    As for the Canadian economy, ALL of our economies are wrecked. By that lovely Progressive Central Bank your Progressive forebears like Woodrow Wilson shoveled onto us. As for modeling reality, unless you have a very highly specialized skill, know the right politicians, are a slumlord or have a high IQ - my guess is, the economy in Canada isn't much different than that of the USA where homelessness is at record highs. Let's see what our Central Planners decide is good for the roads. Image in they normalized interest rates to their long term trend. What would that do to our lovely economy?

    Greenshoots ... hahaha... sell it to the Venezuelans.
     
  18. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    LOL

    In the real world, a warmonger who visited pedophile island with her husband 6 times (he went alone another 14 times) is running as a feminist against a reality TV host.
    In the real world, Venezuelans are eating their zoo animals .
    In the real world, Swedenstan has no go zones and a rape epidemic.

    But also, the free-market is driving innovation that will someday soon, make all of this mute. Automation will do away with the need for most low end labor. Possibly even removing the need to read and write (won't that be nice

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    So, like I said, we'll have to wait until you're eating yourselves - and even then, you'll sing praises to the State. Right to the end, as you're devoured. That's the nature of religion. In this case, Statism. As we see, in the real world: Socialist Paradise, Venezuela.
     
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    That's fake news as well. You can't tell the difference, because the guys pushing that swill have you figured out perfectly - you're laughing at being made a fool of once again, by the same folks as before.

    The laughing is desperate - part of the crazy.
     
  20. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,451
    Well at least in the Socialist EU we don't all get shot by loonies or 3 year olds. And we all get decent health care, paid for out of taxation.

    I've lived in the US, the Middle East and the Netherlands as well as the UK. I have visited 46 countries during my working life. There is no doubt at all in my mind that the best place to live is Europe. I don't mind paying my taxes, in exchange for social cohesion and a feeling that everyone is looked after. But then, I suppose that, with a decent liberal education, a former professional career and now a pension, I am part of the "international elite" that is so much hated these days, on both sides of the Atlantic. The fashion now seems to be to respect and glorify the stupid, the ignorant and the bigoted.
     
  21. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    You'd prefer Greece to San Francisco? Really? That's interesting.

    But, yes, I agree - you lived during a fantastic period of European history. After WWII, but before the collapse of your social welfare States. Well, not really "collapse" - Europe is going to end up like the USA, for the same reasons we ended up as we are. This is going to take awhile. But, it will happen. Slowly. Is happening. Slowly. Even now, the welfare is being cut. The benefits shrink. Expectation is for less. Not more.

    There's no conspiracy, it's just that your way of life is predicated on an immoral assumption (Authoritarianism) and this is only masked by, only sustainable with, an ever expanding population of consumers where opportunities to better yourself increase. The more people, the better. Not only that, but the population that's expanding MUST have a high IQ. Which has a large genetic component to it. Not only that, but the society must be relatively homogeneous. With a good ethnicity. You're allowed to not only NOT believe in god, you can talk about it - you won't have your head chopped off. Women are free to drive. Overwhelmingly, most men haven't raped a child or a woman (or both). People are trustworthy and hardworking. You can walk around at night without too much to worry about. And etc....

    Anyway, you'll see. Or maybe you won't?


    Oh, I've also lived in numerous countries, (though I haven't visited 54) - I have 'lived' in them, not just visited for a few years. IMO, which is just that, we in the West, well - our time in the sun is coming to a close, again. In time, the sun will rise again, in the East

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  22. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,451
    Not the Balkans perhaps, or Scotland, but certainly England, France, Spain or Germany. The culture, history, countryside, food and drink and social cohesion all commend themselves. San Francisco does not appeal to me, nice though it was to visit.
     
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    Except for the completely different history, of course. But they've had a pretty good run so far - maybe if the US adopts more of the European setup, it can get some of the benefits for the hundred years or so that it looks like Europe will enjoy them.
    Europe is homogenous? You need four languages and two religions just to talk to the Swiss, never mind the rest of the place. Different Europeans still have legacies of war against each other within living memory.

    The US, on the other hand, is pretty homogenous, and hasn't staged an internal war since 1865. One language, basically, and essentially one religion, and a continuous shared culture going back to 1880 or so. Plus we enjoy a rising IQ, as even the lower classes improve (the lowest measured IQ in a major subpopulation of the US is that of low income black people, and it has passed the IQ of the white people in the country before WWII). And our population is expanding.

    So we're all set.
    By what he wrote, he prefers Amsterdam to Alabama. One reason might be the greater freedom of Amsterdam society, its greater diversity, the higher moral status of a place that provides medical care even to poor people, the existence of public transit, the safer and cleaner streets, and so forth.
     

Share This Page