Discussion in 'Religion' started by Sorcerer, Feb 24, 2014.
Let's not start dodging, Jan..
How is the plight of gays nothing like that of African-Americans?
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no slavery vs. slavery
I'm not dodging, I just don't see what is so confusing about my statement. So please don't start with this
crap or I will put you on ignore.
What's confusing is what form of iillogic your bigotry would take. And you genuinely surprised me with this.
So the difference is that gays have it easier because they can hide it? It isn't civil rights because we cant say for certain whether MLK would have fought for them?
The context of the comparison is the fight for civil rights, not the fight for freedom.
The difference is that the African American was persecuted for being conceived/born, before any action or decision is even made by them. The homosexual is discriminated against purely for his/her lifestyle choice. The AA had absolutely no choice in the matter.
Homosexuality isn't a lifestyle choice, any more than heterosexuality is a lifestyle choice. Sexuality is as immutable a quality as skin color.
Once is enough, thanks. Actually, none is enough, since your post will always contain your name on the left, just above your avatar.
Do rapists and pedophiles have a choice?
So now we're comparing homosexuality to rape and pedophilia?
Whether either has a choice is irrelevant, since both behaviors hurt people. Homosexuality hurts no one.
African American homosexuals would probably take umbrage at that. Homophobia in predominantly black civilizations, such as Uganda -- which notoriously made it a capital offense -- appears to have been fomented by the exportation of fundamentalist Christianity there by Anglo/American missionaries. They certainly would not be too aware of the plight African Americans. Nor is it likely that events in the US affect gay issues in any other of the roughly 200 countries in which homosexuals may or may not be left unmolested by religious attitudes. It does seem though, that white Christians have a rather unique history which has enabled them to channel their hatred to both gays and ethnic minorities. Of course in the US social conservatism has found its home among Christians, particularly among fundamentalists, more than any other group we can think of.
I think it's safe to say that xenophobia/racism, homophobia and misogyny are among the most striking attitudes fomented by the sanctimony of religiosity, contrary to all the lip service paid to developing empathy for "these, the least of my brethren", as it were.
You always say things so much better than I do.
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You planted a lot of thoughts, having said all the same things yourself. No one can visit here without noticing balerion duking it out with the fundies. I'm actually watching to see if your recent wave of posts will pull the fundies away from the science threads where they seem to have been coordinating a blitzkreig.
Ooooh, lookie here! a mutual admiration society. Is this by invitation only or can i get a membership too? i realize that fundies are sort of easy to get going on things they know nothing about and all, and I was actually kind of disturbed to find them here, but on a boring afternoon, I would be willing to participate in the debates. So, you have a t-shirt, secret handshake, decoder ring or some such thing I an get?
Try posting something worthwhile.
I know, crazy right?
the way i see it, every time someone does post something worth debating, the bible banger brigade comes out and goes off on rants that not only defy logic, but have next to nothing to do with the topic, or--and that's the big winner--they drag out some smelly old red herring and, all the while arguing from authority, move into Jesus territory, the land of what if and since it's in the bible it must be true land.
Now, we could just do that counter-terrorism thing and find some other scripture that contradicts them. I always liked African creation stories, then there are all kinds of mythologies from native peoples across the globe that are a lot less bloody and cruel than bible stories. Anyhow, it is entertaining at times to read that stuff where arguments are of a teleological nature and have no connection to anything but the insecurities and fears of the willful ignorant.
Just try reason and logic. If you try some other scripture you just get into the 'my god is better than your god' 14yro spitting contest, which is what they like.
???? you mean to tell me that they are older? wow, then the reason and logic thing ought to work, but it does not do so. Could be something in the water....
In my experience, there's very little overt bible-thumping here. Most theists here at least make attempts at philosophical/logical/scientific arguments. I have yet to encounter one with enough integrity to admit when they're wrong, or one who doesn't possess some religiously-inspired bigotry, but I don't think it's fair to say they all just jump to Jesus when things get tough.
gays are basicly the only ppls left for the church to persecute.. everyone else has been taken from them.
and it has nothing to do with their sexual preference.. the church needs scapegoats to point at and say 'we are better than that' to avoid looking at their own shortcomings..
and TheHun be very carefull with the word 'ALL' when referencing believers, you are doing the same as religious ppl do when they talk about gays.. not all believers believe the same things..
I would have to classify you as an amature atheist.. your points are from the Atheist 101 class, go review the other religious threads and catch up..
there are way better arguments to utilize other than the 'we can argue him into converting from theist to atheist by using the bible' or 'all believers are this' you are setting yourself up to be exactly like the believers in your attitude.. (nothing you say can change my mind)(if only I can get them to see this particular point then they will believe/not believe)
and.. there have been relatively few bible thumpers on this site (defined as those who goto the bible to support their arguments regardless of what the actual scripture says..)
and..i have admitted being wrong..
Let me tell you that right up front, since I have already made a point of it: ALL refers to the bible bullies (or, in case of non-christians, those who quote scripture of their denomination in order to intimidate, create a false sense of authority, use teleological arguments, use ontological reasoning as if it were rational, and such), the rest of ALL the other religious people are not included as they are not addressed.
Now in regard to what kind of atheist I am--a real one and I don’t need to be told about ATH 101. I actually took the class on how to step up and not be cowed by those who demand respect for their irrational belief systems, but deny me the right to deal in facts only.
The part you did not catch was that this was a humorous response to an equally humorous posting. And if you actually had read some of my posts, then you would know that. In regard to those few bible bangers you mention exist on this forum, what difference does it make how many there are? I did not know that a certain quantity was needed to achieve critical mass at which point I would be allowed to make a comment.
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