Dems coordinated with White House during Clinton Impeachment

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Vociferous, Dec 28, 2019.

  1. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    5,089
    Everybody know about the plot. A few are in on it; some don't mind; many don't care; most don't understand.
    It won't matter in the long run. It's just one stupid little plot in a stupid big derailment of history.
     
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  3. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    In recent days, Schumer has slammed McConnell ahead of Trump's trial, saing he was "utterly amazed" by McConnell describing himself as not impartial.
    "Let the American people hear it loud and clear, the Republican leader said, proudly, 'I'm not an impartial juror. I'm not impartial about this at all.' That is an astonishing admission of partisanship," Schumer said in a floor speech.
    But in several appearances on television in 1998 and 1999 reviewed by CNN's KFile, Schumer noted that senators had previously formed opinions heading into the trial and that the Senate was "not like a jury box." Schumer was elected to the Senate in 1998 after saying during his campaign that a vote for him would be a vote to not impeach Clinton.
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/27/politics/chuck-schumer-impeachment-1999-kfile/index.html

    So Schumer seemed pretty open back then about what he now suddenly finds "astonishing". We can only conclude that he is either lying, has a blatant double-standard, or his memory is really that bad.
     
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  5. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    I have to wonder....
    but then I realize....
    I don't really give a ff
     
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  7. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    The exact sentiment that will fail to turn out the vote for Democrats. Voters too lazy to justify why they should.
     
  8. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Trump makes you hate your own people?

    Those "Do nothing Democrats".
     
  9. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    5,089
    Seems like the do-nothing Democrats keep doing something.
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    The usual Trump supporter progression, edition CLXXVI.

    "He didn't do it"
    "OK he did it but it's not that bad"
    "Clinton did it first."

    Quite the moral relativist you are.
     
  11. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Not much actual legislating. Except passing Trump's USMC trade agreement.

    Nope, I've consistently said nothing illegal/wrong was done, by Trump, in Ukraine dealings and Senate coordination nor Clinton's coordinating with Senate Democrats. It's you who has to suddenly rebuke Clinton.

    All US foreign aid comes with strings attached to our national interest, so quid pro quo is trivially common. Never said Trump, nor any other president, gave aid without strings attached.
    Being commonplace, it's trivial that any claim of wrongdoing basically encompasses all presidents. Which makes the accusation against Trump a special pleading fallacy.
    Yes, Clinton did it first, but neither was in the wrong. Again, claiming Trump is doing something wrong, and only retroactively claiming Clinton did wrong as justification, is only a special pleading.
     
  12. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    5,089
    That would be the Mulroney/Salinas/G. H.W. Bush agreement that Trump couldn't mess up as badly as he would have liked.
    Me, I'd be happy to see them legislate out God, Guns and Trump. If America can't be great, good or even okay, at least it could be a little safer.
     
  13. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    LOL! You really think the USMC is just NAFTA? How ridiculous can you be?

    America is great. We have the freedom to protect our own lives, believe what we want (which only the ignorant think can be divorced from our votes), and have a great economy (no matter how much California screws up its own).
    Low-wage workers getting bigger raises than bosses
    The country’s lowest-paid workers are enjoying bigger income gains than managers and other top-earning professionals, according to new economic data from the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta.

    In November, median wage growth for the bottom 25% of workers reached 4.5% for the 12-month peiod, outpacing a 2.9% gain in median earnings for the top 25% of income earners. Rather than a short-term blip, it’s a trend that has accelerated since 2014, when the lowest-earning workers began to outperform top wage earners.
    ...
    But even workers in states that haven’t yet boosted their minimum wages are benefiting from pay gains, the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta found. That suggests “the increased tightness of labor markets, or some other factor than hikes in state minimum wages, is playing a role in pushing up the pay for those in lower-wage jobs,” Robertson noted.​

    There's no accounting for what curmudgeon authoritarians think about the US.
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Hundreds of bills from the Democratic House sit on McConnell's desk, awaiting Republican Senate activity.
    Your link credits the rising minimum wage laws for much of that, and includes some other factoids you have had trouble acknowledging in the past:
    18k on a forty hour week, which many do not enjoy. That's median - half make less.
    That's household.
    That's your idea of a great economy?

    Trump severed the attachments to US national interest, and attached strings of personal interest that damaged US national interest. That's the impeachable offense.
     
  15. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    I highly doubt that 80% of the global population wants a government made up of people who believe that magic ponies whisper divine policy to them in their dreams, but if they do, then that just lumps Mr. McConnell in with the 80% of the world that can barely read and doesn't have enough water to bathe in.
     
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  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    Chuck Schumer is not going to be turning out the national Dem vote regardless.
    Sure they do. All that stuff is in the witness testimony and timelines and presented facts - it's evidence. That's why McConnell is trying to hold a trial without witnesses.
     
  17. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Passing crap with zero bipartisan support or chance of being signed into law is virtual-signalling, at best. Or are you saying House Democrats are really so stupid that they think those bills had a chance of passing a Republican Senate and President? Either they know it's useless, and keep doing useless stuff anyway, or they're really that dumb. So either ineffective or incompetent.
    You're again making up bullshit that's not in the cited source. Nowhere does it specific a forty hour week, nor even full-time employment. Many low wage jobs do not offer forty hours a week. And yes, if you don't work a full-time job, you likely will not make or exceed the median wage.
    But even workers in states that haven’t yet boosted their minimum wages are benefiting from pay gains, the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta found. That suggests “the increased tightness of labor markets, or some other factor than hikes in state minimum wages, is playing a role in pushing up the pay for those in lower-wage jobs,”
    https://www.wcbi.com/low-wage-workers-getting-bigger-raises-than-bosses/
    Increased minimum wages in some states does not explain the wage gains elsewhere.

    In a press release, Taco Bell said that it aimed to enhance restaurant performance and employee satisfaction, contributing to locations' recruitment and retention.

    Fast-food chains are battling for talent as unemployment hovers near historic lows. In November, the US unemployment rate was 3.5%, the Bureau of Labor Statistics said in early December.

    Major retailers have responded to the war for talent by raising wages, with companies including Amazon, Target, and Costco boosting their minimum pay. Fast-food chains have primarily focused on perks — Shake Shack has tested a four-day workweek, and Starbucks has added mental-health benefits.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/taco-bell-testing-100000-manager-salary-paid-sick-leave-2020-1
    So while mandatory $15 minimum wage has caused companies to cuts hours, positions, or close altogether, a good economy and low unemployment has made workers more valuable and worth more to recruit and retain.
    I really wouldn't think this would bear saying, but there are plenty of single occupant households. And many part-time workers, especially among the young.
    No, that's your leftist fever dreams.
     
  18. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Making straw men because you can't fathom someone else's viewpoint is no more valid reasoning than any other run-of-the-mill straw man.

    All that stuff leftists imagine but cannot prove.
     
  19. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    Where's the straw man? A guy with enormous political power believes he answers to an even higher power that is unaccountable to the American public, in this case a magical pony named Buddha. If it so happens that most Americans for the time being also voluntarily submit to this pony, then everything runs smoothly. If, however, this man perceives a clash between what Buddha wants of him and what the majority of the American people want, which power do you suppose he defers to? If you're objecting that my reference to ponies named Buddha is absurd and demeaning, could you please correct me and explain what the factual reality is and why it's less absurd?
     
  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    They are part of the explanation, of course.

    The wage gains by a spotty minority of the lower working classes are nowhere near enough to rein in the growth of economic inequality, unfortunately - the economy is still getting worse, structurally, as the transfer of wealth to the already wealthy approaches the tipping point of creating an aristocracy too powerful to govern, tax, prosecute for crimes, or otherwise make subject to the will of a community;
    and the ability - the physical ability - to produce the goods needed by the citizens of a First World economy and citizenry continues to erode (latest factoids in the news: consumer electronic gear suitable for the much hyped incoming 5G communications cannot be manufactured in the US, and the US printing industry can no longer print Bibles in sufficient quantity to meet the demand. The US is importing more than half its Bibles from China already, and that fraction is rising as suitable printers disappear. Meanwhile, major printing outfits are investing in Chinese production capacity - if the industry follows the pattern of clothing and the like, soon basic supplies such as ink and paper will vanish from the US much as fabric and the like has vanished, so that not even specialty shops will be viable for any but the very wealthy).
    But you will not count as unemployed.
    Again: that is your idea of a great economy?
    It's called arithmetic. I quoted the source, so you can check it without even revisiting your apparently unread link (it does, as quoted, refer to a forty hour week etc). Meanwhile, your idea of a great economy is a median household income of 13.5k @ year for the working poor - bottom 20% of the employed. And you still haven't evaluated those numbers in light of the employment rate.
    And we see that your claims of imagination and making stuff up that is not linked was projection.
    It's doing the work of legislating - that work you erroneously claimed was not being done vy the Dems in th House.
    Only when Democrats do it, and Repsuckers label it, is it denigrated by the ignorant and careless (the Reps have adopted the tactic of never cooperating with Dems, secure in the knowledge that their sucker base will hold the Dems responsible - that worked with Obama, after all. Meanwhile the past forty plus years of Republican tactical efforts (fifty or more votes on repealing the ACA or parts thereof, for example, despite not actually wanting it repealed) are credited for bearing fruit in the long run, not maligned as "virtue signaling" or whatever the baloney code was then.
    Reading, not imagining, is the skill involved.
    The contents of written documents and records can be verified by anyone willing to read them - whether the evidence of their own eyes will constitute "proof" depends on whether they are Republican media feed victims or not.
     
  21. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    Is there any reason it should be legal to pay someone at a rate such that, if they worked the job for 8 hours a day 5 days a week (not including breaks), they wouldn't be able to afford to live without some tax payer other than the employer making up the deficit? And why is it that Republicans want to ban the very people that enable their industries to survive on such demeaning salaries?
     
  22. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,447
    what is the obvious and un-posted narrative of this word "coordinate" ?
     
  23. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    ~80% of the world believes in a God or higher power of some sort. No one that I've ever heard of believes in your rhetorical straw man. Appeal to ridicule or incredulity are no less fallacious than a straw man. The pragmatic reality is that he is an elected official, who can be removed whenever his constituents feel he no longer works for them. He doesn't work for the "majority of the American people". He only works for those who elected him.
    Learn a little about US government.

    In a free and consensual economy, it's legal to pay people whatever they voluntarily agree to work for, which usually is affected by competition in the labor market and the person's marketable skills. Many entry level jobs are not meant to support an adult, much less a family. They are meant for teens, who still live with their parents, entering the workforce. That adults have failed to grow their marketable skills beyond those of teens is their own fault.

    Ban people that enable industries to survive? What, like illegal aliens? Just like Democrats think every company can absorb a $15/hr minimum wage, paying legal citizens would simple raise the cost to the consumer.


    I can't be bothered to read beyond your jealousy-driven rhetoric.
     

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