Did Jesus exist?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Dinosaur, Feb 19, 2018.

  1. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    LOL

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  3. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Nirvana wills it's self into existence. Hate is a human nature. God is passive and doesn't send anyone to Hell, it's a sinners nature to be down there.
     
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  5. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Ummmm surely if something is performing such a process is "willing" it already exists???

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  7. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Thank you for your reply.
    Do you see that others will think these ideas are a little odd and not only be dismissive of these parts of the story but of the story as a whole.
    I still think the story has it that it is God who sends folk to hell.
    Also it seems rather harse to send all sinners to hell such that we have the one punishement for sin rather than find greater or lesser degrees of sin...further I think the story tells us that everyone is guilty of sin which can only mean everyone is going to hell.

    Again thank you for explaining these things I do find studying mythology and superstitious ideas interesting.
    Alex
     
  8. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Then again God forbids accusations. Sinners aren't just burning down there, Hell gives them a a life.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  9. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Lets get a handle on this

    All sinners go to hell - check

    Everyone is is born with sin = hell by default - check

    jc died for everyone's sins = go to heaven - check

    God not good in logic thinking ya?

    Sliding scale sin sounds good. Do the sin - time served in hell - then rest of eternity in heaven

    Does not look equivalent to me but guess you can't divvy up eternity evenly

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  10. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I wonder if is as hot down there as it is here lately...they get a life well that is good...sinner or not we all get a second life ...
    I think the idea of hell came from a town when it was unpleasantly hot and was a actual place.
    Alex
     
  11. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Its just that we cant know what he is thinking...obviously its all part of the plan...anyways its not God who invents all the stories as they come from folk who are special and we should not laugh at them but clearly we should not treat their delussions as real.
    Alex
     
  12. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Thought volcanoes were the inspiration for hell

    Anyway we won't have to throw virgins into volcanoes to heal chief Turnbull (think he is beyond saving anyway)

    Seems like The "I don't charge" Healer is coming to Australian TV

    Care to be a guinea pig Alex?

    Make a great test case

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  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    No I like being human...
    Oh you mean front for a cure on tv...sure how much money for the acting gig.

    Maybe they could get colour back in my beard.
    Nearly bought a wizards hat today now if I had I could be the healer.
    But my head is not pointy enough and you would have to stuff it with paper which would be fake and I hate fake.

    It looked so good on but Oi want to project a cool business man approach so maybe a bowler plus its a similat shape to my head.

    This is a great area as I look just like the others here ...even the women wear beards....hippy capital is near here.
    Alex
     
  14. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Back to the topic.
    It seems there is no evidence that we can find that is outside of the new testament.
    All accounts there are were written a generation or two after the time of Jesus.

    It would seem reasonable to suggest anything attributed to what Jesus said could not have survived uncorrupted by the repeated telling over time if indeed there was a real story from the time.

    The main question perhaps is even if a Jesus did exist ..could any of the stories be true as to miracles such as raising someone from the dead or walking on water.

    Further to suggest that a God decided to visit only one place on the planet to save humanity seems beyond belief, so maybe the stories grew from Jesus is a neat guy, and he has a nice outlook on life to over time, he is God and when I knew him he performed miracles daily.

    How people love to tell stories and add bits to enthrall the audience.

    Ever witnessed a story teller tell a yarn.

    I have a mate who tells wonderful stories..stories where I was one of the players..but he tells it so good I find myself wishing I could have been there...his telling takes the story to a whole new level.

    Can you imagine how Jesus could have gone from a nice chap to god...if my mate told the story that would be the way of it.

    There is no way things can be established however to give any credibility to the Jesus story and yet happily many folk use the story to, on occassion try to be decent...there are some who use the story to justify the unjustifiable...I certainly have draw good life tactics from the alleged teachings of Jesus but I have also draw good life tactics from the Art of War by that Chinese guy Sun Zue ?
    whoever ... and I have drawn from the examples shown to me by decent people such as my parents and in one case a chap who even rated himself as a bum.

    I become suspicious of any thing that claims to have all the answers because that is clearly a lie...

    The claims about Jesus are so over the top one wonders how much is fact and how much was simply just more made up stuff.

    Back then there would not have been many ways to make a buck and it seems back then there were plenty of folk making a living from practising superstition and extracting money or goods from anyone silly enough to become followers.

    Such practices go on today and so it is not unreasonable to suggest the Jesus story was seen by some enterprising person to gather a following and fleece the flock and perhaps that person created much of the Jesus story.

    The resurection of Jesus follows the Suns behaviour of "dying and resurrection" and it seems there were other "human gods" who just like the Sun died and were resurrected after three days...just like the Sun.. and remember Sun worship extended to many cultures and humans personifying the behaviour of the Sun presumably was their attempt to claim god status.

    The Jesus story is similar to at least ten other "human gods" and so it would seem this was the way you started a following and made a buck.

    The Jesus version survives and generates billions of dollars but that is more a testament to the gulibility of followers than to any claim that the Jesus story was any better than the various other human gods we find through out history.

    Of course a christian does not wish to know the real history and will insist that history did not take place...pity...history holds the truth but sadly the truth may take a back seat if it threatens belief and a billion dollar pay no tax enterprise.
    Alex
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  15. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    When I came to Australia by boat about 50+ years ago by boat we stopped over in India

    Went on a tour and in the temple they showed the wall murals which looked much the same as many murals in English churches

    Have vague idea there exists a story about some years when jc was"missing"

    The story is that he was in Indea and indeed was also in England

    Perhaps need a thread The Travels of jc and connect the dots

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  16. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    For a couple of atheists we seem to study him a lot.

    What I would like to do is explore why humans have the need for superstition in this era.

    I mean you can understand in the past where ignorance was the only option when folk needed an explaination of say why people got sick or other mysteries ...but now when so many things have reasonable and deeply researched answers they turn to a book explaining stuff from the perspective of a bronze age agricultural society.

    I mean they had such crazy ideas and for some they seem like they are still living in the bronze age.

    What is in a theists brain that is not in mine.

    I recall Jan citing "research" that children had a propensity to believe in God.

    I questioned it mainly because the researcher was a full blown christian but clearly some just accept the crazy notion...well to me its in the same boat as believing in spirits and tarot cards.

    No facts simply nothing to suggest there is anything at all...and its so circular..the bible has the answer..no..but its in the bible...there is your proof..but there is nothing to suggest it is correct...how dare you question my faith..

    And some folk are clearly very inteligent but then on the subject of religion their brain hangs up the "out to lunch sign".

    Intetestingly the most angry athiests I have met are mates who both were raised in catholic house holds...you think I go off..each of these guys are ready to burn down churches when the subject comes up..yet the point is they worked out they were being conned and rejected their drummed in teaching.

    I just wonder why some just seem incapable of thinking things thru and coming up with the obvious flaws with the idea of a God who would see us as special or communicate with us...even if there is one...which there is not...in my view.


    And this belief that there is a life after their current life...do they think they are butterflys or something..

    .and all these stories are unevidenced unsupported and comes from folk in the bronze age.

    What would they know?


    I like astronomy science and mechanics and need to know how things work yet there are folk who if told something they will accept it without question.

    The times I have goggled why folk are prone to religion I cant recall but I always get side tracked and have yet to read what researchers have found out...

    I was trying to have a conversation with a christian, (and the date was 2/2/2018 I recalled the date because it was a birthday party) and I sort explain the size of the observable universe after showing her a photo of the Milky Way because she thought it was big...and rather than seek more information or say anything sensible says..Oh the size of God's creation is enormous...

    What do you say...cant you think about anything without bringing God into it....you can guess what words went thru my mind...
    Things just are..things just are... so do you think it will rain later.

    Alex
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  17. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Know thy enemy

    Distrust of authority (Science because they expect Science to deliver certainty)

    Trust in superstition (you WILL go to heaven if you are good)

    Denial (this can't be all there is)

    Faith and hope in a empty loft

    Bet you didn't get a link - or was there any correlation between the kids belief and the kids exposure to religion BEFORE the research undertaken

    Were the kids also asked about their beliefs in Santa Claus, Easter Bunny etc etc? If the kid answered yes to all would it be fair for the research to claim - oh only yes to jc is correct?

    Hope not I have washing on the line

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  18. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    You have washing?
    I put washing on the line and hope for rain so it can be washed.☺
    There was a link and I then goggled the researcher and found out he was a christian.

    I thought there was a possibility that the research probably was crap.

    Anyways it is what it is...

    Been bucketing down here because I bought so much new astronomy gear and set aside three weeks to play with it...so far 20 minutes of clear sky.

    But trying to learn some processing soft ware which is so complex it is beyond me...but hopefully will keep my brain working.

    I should have bought that wizards hat but it wasnt red...I can get around the floppy bit by lining it with tin foil.

    Alex
     
  19. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    You havn't got a tin foil already?

    You have Halloween coming up. Plenty pointy hats available at during the party days

    Or costume shops

    A metal colander is a good choice - paint it black so you don't look stupid when wearing

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  20. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Hech last year all these kids turned up and I had nothing to give them...I had better start making my reformed laxetts into little bats or something.
    Alex
     
  21. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Or sugar coloured rabbit pellets left over from Easter if you that evil

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  22. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    No thinking about it I will buy some lollies etc cause they are kids, and although I absolutely resent the fact we take on such a stupid custom from the US for no other reason than commercial opportunism by some commercial opportunist , they are just little kids having fun and I would rather add to it rather than take anything away.

    Besides I think the way it works is that it introduces them to extortion at an early age so maybe when they grown up and some become politicians I will be remembered favourably.
    Alex
     
  23. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Think from UK but US upt it sky high

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