Did Nothing Create Everything?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by SetiAlpha6, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Ok, I am confused, thank you.

    What kind of physical evidence should I use to evaluate whether or not the Exodus Account is history?
     
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  3. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    I would be more than happy to accommodate your request but unfortunately, there isn't any physical evidence. Of course, if you were that well read on the topic, you would probably know how others have extrapolated what one would expect to find in the form of evidence and you would find that those avenues have been pretty much exhausted.
     
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  5. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Thank You!

    I agree with you in part.

    They certainly have exhausted some locations, like the traditional Mountain of God site in Egypt.

    You are very correct, no evidence has ever been found there!!!

    But the new discoveries in Saudi Arabia have not been exhaustively studied yet. In fact, the scientific research there is just beginning.

    Dr. Glen Fritz has just completed a 20 year exhaustive study investigating the Geography at the Saudi Arabia Sites and also at other Exodus Sites across several countries. His 2 books are available for your review, if you wish. He has confirmed the Mountain of God Site from more than one perspective.

    The Mass Gravesite needs study, the Camp area in front of the Mountain of God needs to be extensively excavated and studied, the Blackened Top of the Mountain needs to be carefully tested and studied. And a lot more scientific research needs to be done, in order to either confirm or deny the details of the Exodus Sites to a higher level. I would love it if the Split Rock was studied more!

    Wouldn’t that all be fun to be a part of?
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
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  7. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, you mention that ad nausea. We wonder why the good doctor must sell books rather than putting his findings up on a peer reviewed site. Most likely, because he has nothing to offer, which is made evident each time he gets to a certain point in the Exodus story; drinkable water, food, parting of the sea, etc., and basically states that a miracle from God must have taken place and then he moves on to the next point without hesitation. In other words, his work is based entirely on faith in miracles.

    You mean, so the good doctor can sell more books to the ignorant masses who gobble up his rhetoric without thinking, who then perpetuate the nonsense on internet forums? Nah.
     
  8. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Interesting that you mention the Admonitions of Ipuwer. Consult the following source for more reliable information on that than you appear to have:

    https://www.ancient.eu/article/981/the-admonitions-of-ipuwer/

    Here's a brief extract that may well be relevant to you:

    As recently as 2014 CE, the documentary Patterns of Evidence: Exodus claimed The Admonitions of Ipuwer was historical reportage, an Egyptian view of the events given in the biblical Book of Exodus, proving that work historically accurate. The companion book of the same name reasserts these claims as does the work by David Rohl, whose theories infuse and support the film and book, Exodus: Myth or History? which perpetuates the misunderstanding. However well-meaning these works may - or may not - be, they are intellectually and historically dishonest in how they represent the evidence they claim to be presenting impartially. Those who represent opposing views are dismissed as either atheists or blinded by 'mainstream' scholarship while literary and physical evidence is manipulated to prove the claims of the producers/writers.

    Through the popularity of Rohl's works, this misunderstanding of the nature of the Egyptian text is presently perpetuated, even though there is no sound basis for it in the work itself. One can only accept The Admonitions of Ipuwer as history if one has little or no knowledge of Egyptian history and literature. As Rohl is an Egyptologist, one might wonder why he would advocate for an understanding of the work so completely at odds with accepted scholarship. The answer becomes fairly obvious if one is aware of Rohl's repeated calls for a revision of Egyptian chronology, his 'fringe' status among accepted scholars, and his insistence on the historical truth of biblical narratives such as the Book of Exodus; his perpetuation of a misinterpretation of the text supports the claims he makes in books which have sold well and have conferred on him a degree of celebrity.
    The bold emphasis here is mine.

    Are you relying on Patterns of Evidence: Exodus, SetiAlpha6?

    ---
    Edited this post to add: ah, I see that (Q) found the same information before I did. I should have read to the end of the thread first. This does raise a question, however. Since the quoted site is among the very first links that come up in the search results on google, why aren't you already aware of this criticism, SetiAlpha6? It looks to me like you haven't done your homework very well on this. Maybe you should stop reading pseudohistory and see what some real historians and archeologists have to say about your pet theory.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  9. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Thank you for your comments!

    Of course Scholars, Historians, Egyptologists disagree on this and many other things. No news there. People disagree about a lot of things.

    I have read through arguments on both sides and I have reached my own conclusions.

    Have you ever read the Ipuwer Papyrus, and have you ever compared it with the Exodus account yourself? If not, why not try it and decide for yourself? Why not consider both sides?

    I have tried to do that and to me it appears to be a very close fit with the Exodus.

    You are certainly free to disagree.
     
  10. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    SetiAlpha6,

    Is this part of your job or just a hobby, this Exodus thing?
     
  11. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    I have a passion for the Exodus because God used it to personally show me He is real. And that changed my life.
     
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  12. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Your approach is a sensible one unless you are doing the following...

    Any chance you are doing one or both of these?

    Herbert Spencer said: "There is a principle, which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a person in everlasting ignorance – that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

    And Karl Giberson adds, "Our imaginations pose curious limitations on our search for truth. Often it seems impossible that something could be the case, not because the evidence is not there, but because the intellectual machinery to get our minds around the problem seems to be missing."

    I have done both of these at times myself.

    Have you ever given the topic serious thought and allowed it to breath a little? Or are you just throwing it out the window without any effort at all?

    Also, arguments from majority of opinion are not the basis I use to draw conclusions from. Are you doing that, perhaps? Hope not!

    I wish you the very best!
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
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  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,635
    That's great! But it can be a mistake to take a personal belief and try to force the rest of the world to fit into your beliefs.
     
  14. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Now you are resorting to character assasinations both of a scientist and “the masses”!

    You just lost my respect!
     
  15. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    I agree, that would be a mistake, even immoral, to force anyone to agree with my own personal belief.
    (Catholic Church anyone?)

    Your comment is also true of every single one of us on this forum.

    I have never forced anyone!

    I have no need for anyone to agree with me.

    This is a forum where people discuss things.

    We are discussing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  16. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Well, at least you admit it has nothing to do with evidence.
     
  17. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry, but I'm not under the delusion that God used it to show me he is real, which is the actual reason you believe it's true, regardless of the massive army of professionals, scholars and even holy men in their field who understand it wasn't. Hence, you have not given it any serious thought or effort as you ask others to do, nor have you bothered to look at both sides of the argument, you are a fraud.
     
  18. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think you know what science is about. If the good doctor were a scientist, then he would be releasing his findings in peer reviewed journals rather than selling them in books. Nor, would he be working in reverse of how scientists work where he has already decided what is true and goes around looking for evidence to pigeon hole into his beliefs. Sorry, but the good doctor is also a fraud.
     
  19. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    2,283
    Ok, have a great day!
     
  20. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    I just read through it all again as a refresher and, in my opinion, it really does describe conditions consistent with an aftermath of the Exodus. It is a plain and obvious thing to me. And even the date window works well.

    Agree, disagree, insult me, don’t insult me.
    Use character assasinations if you wish to.
    Whatever you need to do.

    So the Ipuwer Papyrus stands as an apparent eyewitness both to the Exodus events and also to the aftermath of the Exodus.

    I will keep it on my evidence list.
    Take it off yours if you would like to.

    Decide for yourself!
     
  21. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    But, you have already shown you're not here for discussion as that would require sincerity, honesty and integrity, all of which you've tossed out the window in favor of some delusion that God showed you he was real by way of the Exodus and then dishonestly go around this thread telling others to look at the evidence and give it a chance when we all know full well the evidence does not agree with your assessment. So, the bottom line in all this is your personal belief and nothing at all to do with evidence.

    And no, his comment does not include everyone else on this forum because many here are not under a delusion while fraudulently deflecting by pitching some story about evidence and science rather than being honest about their personal beliefs. Now that you've actually admitted this is all about a delusion, your argument has been exposed for what it is, a scam.
     
  22. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    But, we already know that isn't true, that what you say here is all about a delusion that God showed you he is real by way of the Exodus.

    Yet, you appear oblivious to the fact that you are insulting us by telling us you're following evidence when you are doing no such thing. You are a blatant liar and a fraud.

    Yet, only delusional people believe that.

    You keep lying that you're using evidence. Too bad you can't even be remotely honest about this. Sad and pathetic.
     
  23. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Here is my evidence list for the historicity of the Exodus so far...

    1. The ancient Egyptian Papyrus Brooklyn 35.1446 provides evidence for the Exodus. The Egyptian document lists Hebrew slave names at the time period of the Exodus.

    https://apxaioc.com/article/hebrews-egypt-exodus-evidence-papyrus-brooklyn

    2. The Plagues of the Exodus Account were apparently described from an Egyptian perspective in “The Admonitions of Ipuwer” Papyrus.

    Your list may differ, which is fine.

    3. The Book of Exodus provides internal evidence that the Exodus Account was a historical writing.
     

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