Did Nothing Create Everything?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by SetiAlpha6, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    I have learned to view God as love, and I have learned to trust Him. I certainly cannot trust mankind.

    There are certainly many twisted versions of Christianity in the world.

    Seems like mankind has a general tendency to corrupt whatever it touches.

    Science, a good thing, was warped to create machines of war that are so devastating that we can now destroy the entire human race in less than 1 hour. Now we are working on even faster warhead delivery technology so we can do it even faster.

    Aren’t we amazing!
     
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    SetiAlpha6:

    How do you know that?

    You're saying we should all believe in your God because we'd be happier and more hopeful if we did? Even if the God isn't real?

    On the basis of "atheism alone", you're right. Atheism alone is just the absence of a belief in gods. It doesn't claim to be a basis for morality. Luckily, we atheists have a perfectly adequate alternative to religious morality, called Secular Humanism. That moral system doesn't require any gods as justification or authorities to be obeyed and feared.

    Also more honest than a lot of Christians, wouldn't you agree?

    Define "scientific naturalism" for me. Would secular humanism be part of scientific naturalism? If so, then I'd say it does provide a moral foundation. Do you agree?
     
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  5. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    What you appear to trust are the blatant contradictions of your faith and have disposed of all concepts of logic, reason and rationale as was demonstrated by the contradiction of your God's so called love. You trust in saying one thing and then the opposite, all for the sake of trying to justify and protect your faith. Yet, it's shown to be little more than a house of cards crumbling about you.

    It's the other way round, Christianity has corrupted mankind.

    You're free to make up whatever stories you want to justify your faith even though you take advantage of everything science has provided you, each and every day of your life, all the while your Bible sits idle on the shelf doing nothing for you other than corrupting your mind.
     
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed.

    Truman is the only leader in history to drop (two) atomic bombs on another nation.

    That's right. He was a Christian.
     
  8. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    No to pretty much everything you said.

    And you know I hate the killing of innocent children and hate abortions just like you do.
     
  9. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    I disagree...

    No contradictions because of the huge scale and category differences involved with the various issues, which makes them incomparable.

    But I do love your heart for the innocent!
    You are a beautiful person!
     
  10. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Good point...

    All mankind have a tendency toward corruption, Christian and non-Christian alike.
     
  11. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    I'm sure if you keep telling yourself that, you'll manage to wipe out any and all truth of the world around you.
     
  12. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    God does different things under different circumstances. So do you.

    God gave mankind this Earth to rule over. So we normally have the responsibility for what happens here. If a man murders a child he is held responsible for doing that by God, either now in this world or in the next, or in both.

    God usually allows the evil in this world to exist right alongside the good (will you blame Him for this?). But there are also times when evil becomes so pervasive that He intervenes and stops it (and also blame Him for this?)

    God did not force such a man to commit murder against his will, the man decided to do it by his own will. He chose to murder so he is held responsible for his actions.

    Certainly you believe in some level of justice.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    How do you know that?

    You speak as if you think those two things are related somehow.
     
  14. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    But, I have morals and ethics, unlike God. If I had that power, I would've saved those children and wouldn't flood the Earth because of a mistake I made.

    That's Christianity corrupting your mind again. We don't rule the Earth, we share it.

    We don't know that, all we know is the laws we have on Earth. We should hold God responsible for his shortcomings and mistakes.

    Absolutely. God is completely to blame for that.

    Yet, that once again contradicts what you said above. More Christianity corruption.

    I do, but your God certainly doesn't.
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    You just defended the killing of millions of children by saying they "became so wicked that God had to remove them from the Earth" but it was OK because "the innocent are accepted by God and given eternal life." Are you rethinking that? If so, great! Because it doesn't make much sense, really.
    Yes, you explained that. So if man does that, is he evil, but when God does it, he is good? Sort of a paradox there.
    Very much like God.
     
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Uh - no.
    Again - no. That's an ignorant and facile attempt at a strawman. It would be just as accurate to say that religious types are OK with any sort of rape and murder as long as their God tells them it's OK, as God did in the Bible. Will you explain to a child that it's OK to murder his parents because God said to do it?
     
  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Complete nonsense. There are far, far more dogs than wolves. That means they are more successful in terms of evolution.
    99.5% of all species have gone extinct.
    New species are created all the time.
    That's how it works, yes. Evolution also results in new species - like us.
    Nonsensical BS. You don't understand genetics even a little.
    Again, silly BS. Did you see this in a science fiction movie or something?
     
  18. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    On what Scientific Naturalism basis alone would anyone be able to choose between Humanism and Hedonism?

    Which one is right? And on what scientific basis?

    Let’s add one more...

    On what Scientific Naturalism basis is Nazism wrong or evil?

    And why not add...

    On what Scientific Naturalism basis is Christianity wrong or evil?

    I actually don’t think that the concepts of good or evil can even exist in Scientific Naturalism.

    Am I wrong on that?
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    On the basis of deciding that actions are right if they are useful or for the benefit of a majority.
    Utilitarianism.
    Utilitarianism.
    It's not, based on utilitarianism. At least nowadays. When Christianity was used to murder heretics and witches it was pretty evil.
    Yes.
     
  20. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    How does Hedonism conflict with Utilitarianism?

    How does Nazism conflict with Utilitarianism?

    So everyone here believes in Utilitarianism?
    Is that correct?

    Are you sure you want to go with that one?
     
  21. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Does hedonism conflict with actions that are useful or for the benefit of a majority?
    Think of whether or not Nazism was useful to, or to the benefit of, six million Jews. After you think about that you will have answered your own question.
    Not even close. Where the heck do you get that? It's merely a secular morality that has a lot of utility (no pun intended.) As exemplified by the trolley problem answers, not everyone hews to that 100%.
     
  22. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Nazism is Utilitarianism applied to one larger more powerful people group (who represented the most good) at the expense of another weaker people group, the Jews.

    Nazism was clearly based on Utilitarianism.

    I know you don't want that to ever happen again.

    https://orthosphere.wordpress.com/2018/10/09/utilitarianism-a-new-kind-of-evil/
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,189
    Again, utilitarianism states that actions are right if they are useful or for the benefit of a majority. Nothing about being good for "larger, more powerful people." It just says majority. So please explain why you think that Nazism benefited the majority.
    Yep. Would be best if more people implemented utilitarianism, so that that never happens again.
     

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