Discussion: That sex without consent is always rape

Discussion in 'Formal debates' started by James R, Jul 8, 2008.

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  1. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Kadark:

    I know you intend the term "dick eater" to be an insult. Therefore, I find it offensive. I will ask you, just once, not to insult me in such a manner again.

    Thankyou.

    Ok. How about we debate "A woman must give her husband sex if he wants it, whether she wants to or not"?

    You, of course, will argue the affirmative side.

    Do we have an agreement?

    Yes. You have already exercised your right not to participate in the current debate. So quit whining.

    Good for you. If only you'd had the guts to defend your comments in an actual debate.
     
    James R, Jul 8, 2008
    #21

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  3. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I'm getting sick of your accusations of dishonesty. In this latest one, I made no claims. I asked you two questions. So, I cannot have been dishonest.

    I ask you not to make any further accusations of dishonesty against me unless and until you can document them by quoting the relevant posts.
     
    James R, Jul 8, 2008
    #22

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  5. angrybellsprout

    angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    This is coming from the same person who keeps claiming that I stated that nonconsentual sex is not rape?

    Hillarious.
     
    angrybellsprout, Jul 8, 2008
    #23

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  7. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Please do not lie.
     
    James R, Jul 8, 2008
    #24
  8. Randwolf

    Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Totally off topic, and feel free to delete this post, but OMG can I relate to this.
     
    Randwolf, Jul 8, 2008
    #25
  9. angrybellsprout

    angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    angrybellsprout, Jul 8, 2008
    #26
  10. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Randwolf and I are now in agreement on the issue, angrybellsprout, so I see no relevance to your quoting of his post.

    Please go play somewhere else.
     
    James R, Jul 8, 2008
    #27
  11. angrybellsprout

    angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    That you were dishonest in trying to claim that he ever stated that nonconsentual sex is not rape?

    That is apperant to everyone.
     
    angrybellsprout, Jul 8, 2008
    #28
  12. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Where did I claim that, ABS? Certainly not in the post you linked to. There, I invited 3 people to debate an issue. That is all.
     
    James R, Jul 8, 2008
    #29
  13. angrybellsprout

    angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    No, you 'invited' people to play your little strawman game with.

    You 'invited' people who you knew never once made the claim that you wanted them to defend.

    It would be similar to me inviting you to defend the position that fucking a dog in the ass is a noble and just thing to do, while I stick up for the position that it is rape.

    As far as I know you never made this claim, but I'm just going to attach it to you and if you don't defend it, then you are simply a coward.
     
    angrybellsprout, Jul 8, 2008
    #30
  14. DeepThought

    DeepThought Banned Banned

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    James R,

    I think this issue demonstrates how hard it is for us to make judgments concerning the experience of others, and, consequently, how dangerous words like rape and racism can be.

    If a poor farmer from the Third World is trod on by the system, and left unable to feed and care for his family - perhaps even losing some of his children due to lack of medical care - is he completely in the wrong if he forces a childless female executive of a large multinational whom the system has made wealthy to have sex with him - and maybe even slaps her around a bit while he's at it?

    Rape 4. an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
     
    DeepThought, Jul 8, 2008
    #31
  15. Gustav

    Gustav Banned Banned

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    12,575
    he is more than wrong. he is also a pussy
    this is the way of the noble people.......

    The Committee of Public Safety came under the control of Maximilien Robespierre, a lawyer, and the Jacobins unleashed the Reign of Terror (1793-1794). According to archival records, at least 16,594 people died under the guillotine or otherwise after accusations of counter-revolutionary activities

    /not amused
     
    Gustav, Jul 8, 2008
    #32
  16. Gustav

    Gustav Banned Banned

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    i think you have been compromised

    /spits
     
    Gustav, Jul 8, 2008
    #33
  17. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    angrybellsprout:

    Let us be clear then.

    Do you agree that sex without consent is always rape?

    Yes or no?

    I am asking you which position you defend.
     
    James R, Jul 8, 2008
    #34
  18. visceral_instinct

    visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    Lemme ask you something, Kadark. If you're so right, why can you not use reason like anyone else instead of stooping to calling people 'dick eater'?
     
    visceral_instinct, Jul 8, 2008
    #35
  19. Syzygys

    Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    OK children, so far this has been very productive. Except maybe 3-4 actually ontopic posts, the rest should be deleted so far as irrelevant bickering.

    Anyway, here are a few problems to start with:

    1. DEFINITION. What definition are we using?
    2. GEOGRAPHY. Which country or state are we refering to, whose laws are being discussed here?
    3. TIME. Are we talking about now, about Victorian England, etc. or universally?

    1. The problem of the definition is twofold:

    a. If we give a strict definition and we all agree to it, there is nothing left to debate. Analogy: Is a 2 dimensional shape consisting points with equal distance from a particular point is always a circle? If we give the definition of circle like this:"Circle is a 2 dimensional shape consisting of those points in a plane which are at a constant distance from a fixed point." When everyone agrees, there is no point in debating what the circle is.
    My point here is that I need a little leeway with the definition.

    b. James' usage of "always" in the moral question. If I can show at least one occasion when the sexual attack without consent could be considered something else rather than rape, the answer is no, and I win the debate.

    #2 and #3 are selfexplanatory, so I don't need to explain them....
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2008
    Syzygys, Jul 8, 2008
    #36
  20. Syzygys

    Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    OK, I will give some definitions here, from my mind and Wikipedia:

    Rape (1): sometimes called sexual assault, is an assault by a person involving sexual intercourse with or sexual penetration of another person without their consent.

    Rape (2): physical attack when one is being forced against his/her will to engage in sexual activity.

    I am open to other, similar definitions. Again, the problem is with #1 that there is nothing left to argue, as James' moral question is stated. Although here I am going to throw in one of my weapons:

    Spousal rape! It all boils down to the definition of consent in the context of rape. Just about half of the world even today consideres MARRIAGE being an institution that gives long term consent to the spouse to use the other's body for sexual activities. Thus even if the husband forces the wife to have sex with him against her will, legally it can not be considered rape.

    Oups! Did I just win the debate? That was fast, but I told you I was good...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    Syzygys, Jul 8, 2008
    #37
  21. Syzygys

    Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    12,671
    Syzygys, Jul 8, 2008
    #38
  22. visceral_instinct

    visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    It's still rape because it was AGAINST HER WILL.
     
    visceral_instinct, Jul 8, 2008
    #39
  23. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    Syzygys, please be advised that the actual debate is being held in a different thread. This is a discussion thread about the debate itself where non debaters can discuss the actual debate.

    Please post your debating points in:

    Debate: That sex without consent is always rape

    Thank you.
     
    Bells, Jul 8, 2008
    #40
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