If enemy is defined as those who have intentions to kill or to help people who wish to kill us, then Iraq under Saddam was clearly enemy of the United States. From my view, the people who support this Iraq war are those with enough courage to go and fight the enemy and those against are simply people who are not only lack of courage but also do not even have a common courtesy to stand behind the courageous ones who already stepped up to the front. Note that the Iraq War supporters are not War Lovers, they are also against war but when the going gets tough, the tough gets going while the soft keeps whinning, talking and coming up with excuses for not going. If you are one of the people who call this war stupid, It is OK for you to do so because there are soldiers already risking their lives to ensure your safety so that you can tell them that they are fighting and dying for a stupid war.
Saddam had no intention of attacking the US and even if he did have intentions he didn't have the Weapons of Mass Destruction to do it. Those are the facts.
Speak for yourself, I definately love war. And I would call this a dumb war because soldiers are trying to be diplomatic, its tacky. As an aside I agree with you on the motivations. The us had good reason to suspect saddam would want revenge for the gulf war, because they knew thats the kind of guy he is. 9-11 spooked them, made them realise even lamo's can attack in ways they can't defend against so they thought better be safe than sorry with saddam. They didn't have any particularly hard evidence that saddam was going to attack but felt like they couldn't afford to wait for it. They were probably wrong, but again they were being safe. They would have been better off being honest, of course hindsight is 20/20.
Saddam Hussein was also an enemy of al-Qaeda, and the occupation of Iraq is devouring most of America's attention, blood, and treasure, while in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, and many other places, recruitment for terrorism against the US is growing fast.
You can support the troops, but not the reasons the war was fought. John Kerry had the courage to fight in vietnam, then he had the courage to stand up for what he felt was wrong, even if it was an unpopular view at the time. When the going gets tough, sometimes the tough have to back off. We are trying to create a stable government over there, not kill everyone, that would be easy.
the obvious answer to the question is yes the war-in-iraq supporters are a friendly baby-eating dog-kicking wife-beating types who like violence and death we get our kicks by invading countries and toppling their governments the bloodier it is, the hornier we feel a day without a brutal massacre is a day wasted - is what i say [a note for all morons out there: i hope you detected the sarcasm]
Grover, It is not a fact that Iraq did not have WMDs just because we did not find them. He did have them because he had used them before on the Kurds. Whether we find WMD or not, it is stilll important to realize that even if he no longer has them, he still would have made them and used it against us whenever he has a chance such as selling them to terrorists. Do you really think that he already used all of his WMDs to kill the Kurds? or he had been a nice guy and destroyed all of his remaining WMDs after killing them without making a big show to the world how nice he was? Dr Lou Natic, I obviously was wrong to assume(ass..u..me) that nobody loves war. Allow me to add the word "most" in front of "...Iraq War supporters are not War Lovers". By the way, if for any reason you disagree and then able to prove that the majority of Iraq War supporters actually love war, then let me know so I can change "most" to "many" then to "few"...By trying to be diplomatic, do you mean that our military commanders are trying to talk with the Iraqis? If yes, I do not like this talking either. I think the military should destroy all the places that the terrorists are hiding inside to shoot at us after giving one minute warning that if there is any civilian in there or close to it, must exit or run away from the place without holding a weapon in hands. Also, we should keep on doing this until bullets stop flying toward us.
The soldiers there are not making things safe for us or the people of Iraq. Saddam was contained and the containment was increasing as well as the desire to improve the welfare of Iraq and help them learn how to govern themselves in a mutually positive way for all concerned before neoconservatives decided to take advantage of the situation. hungvu, you are a victim of pernicious propaganda. This war is to fill the coffers of a power elite. It is an offense against the US and Iraq and all humanity. Your approach here is to attack the character of all who would disagree with you. That will not help you to see the facts. Terrorism is a state of mind. The only way to "kill" a state of mind is to get off of this "good guys verses bad guys" fantasy and address removing the conditions that create terrorism. As long as you feel that some people are inately evil and you must kill them, you feed the conflagration.
Interesting this Kungfoo..... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! You from the Heritage Foundation or AIPAC, Bubba? Young soldiers are dying in Iraq for "only" two reasons: 1. Oil for the gluttonous US' SUV's and its other oil driven industries. 2. G. W. Bush's lies and his wanting to prove he is truly a "reel" macho man. Saddam was no more a threat to the US than a stone throwing Palestinian boy hurling stones at a steel clad Israeli Merkava tank from 1,000 meters. The US will lose thousands of young soldiers in Iraq to prove Bush and his cabal of pro-Israel NeoCon(men) are lying rats. As of last week Bush was up to his Kiester in Iraqi crocodiles and then he and Sharon had a meeting regarding the continued theft of Palestinian turf and now he has managed to pick up another million or two Muslim enemies for America. Hey, "KEYBOARD WARRIOR " maybe you should sign up for a couple of tours in Iraq, huh? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Whirlwind....... PS: No one has ever accused draft dodging George "CHICKEN HAWK" Bush of having any "huevos" so cut out the pro-Bush, pro-war Caca, OK? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
That recent agreement between Bush and Sharon sure was like twisting the knife in the creation of terrorism. Wow. Incredible how people are so duped into believing in the altruism of Bush. A suggestion, consider Bush as a total sociopath, intent on spreading mayhem and destruction in the name of his delusions. Get informed elsewhere than his mouth or the mainstream media which has become his proxy.
No WMDs have been found after 1 year...plus I don't know about you but if I were being attacked and had WMDs I would have used them, so it's pretty safe to say there are no WMDs in Iraq...your point about him making them in the future is not only conjecture, it's also bullshit since you already stated that he had them in the past and assume that if he had them he would sell them to terrorists...once again absolutely no evidence, all we know is that terrorists have never used WMDs. I don't know why there are no WMDs in Iraq, I prefer to stick with the facts: There is no evidence of WMDs in Iraq, Bush lied to the world when he said they had solid evidence that there were WMDs and used it as a reason to invade a country...that's illegal...he should be tried for war crimes.
Whirlwind, You are absolutely right that OIL is one of the reasons that our soldiers are dying for because 95% of Iraq Gross National Product is OIL and our soldiers are being shot at to guard and make sure that their OIL will fairly be distributed among Iraqis without even an attempt to take away one single drop. For your information, I was a U.S. Marine during the first Iraq war. I am no longer a marine but if I am ever needed again, you can count on me. By calling me "Kungfoo," did you consider me your enemy because that is the impression that I have? Be reminded that our eminent enemy is terrorism and not someone with a name that sounds asian or with a view that is different from yours.
No WMDs have been found after 1 year...plus I don't know about you but if I were being attacked and had WMDs I would have used them, so it's pretty safe to say there are no WMDs in Iraq This is invalid. Saddam had them in the first war and he didnt use them.
The US will lose thousands of young soldiers in Iraq to prove Bush and his cabal of pro-Israel NeoCon(men) are lying rats. Bullshit. More doom and gloom. Im sure you said the exact same thing during the first war.
See that Whirlwind? Call somebody a name and they will pick on that and ignore most other criticism. As far as the oil goes, hungv is just remouthing the inanities of the terrorist in the white house, perhaps, the terrorist with more innocent victims to his tally over the last couple of years than any other on the planet right now. hungv is obviously unaware of the laundering of tax dollars that is going on over there right now and the profiting by oil, electricity, construction and other service companies, given contracts to be paid by the US government even without bidding. Whirlwind, I like your perspective and agree much but if you don't see that the insanity of others is not due to any fault of their own and aim inane twisitng of handles or insults towards them, the important content of your messages will not get through. Not that I'm really hopeful that my respect for hungv and total disagreement with his basic attitude and beliefs will amount to anything.
crazy151drinker, over ten thousand people, mostly civilians, have died as the result of this "war" so far over in Iraq not to mention anything about the hundreds of thousands claimed to have died through the result of the sanctions of more than a decade. It's been doom and gloom for them, or should we say, "shock and awe" for quite some time. Now, we will fight them into peace? crazy151drinker, why do I find your handle so apt at times?
Chips, he was talking about US soilders. The Sanctions were Saddams own fault not ours. Im sure you'll disagree Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! 151 is good for the mind
Oh, well then, lets forget the innocents why don't we. Isn't it nice to have clearly defined bad guys and good guys. Makes it all so much easier to disregard the collateral damage, which I'm sure, will be more of the lasting legacy than any pet peeves.
BTW, if you want to see the "rest of the story" you might tune into Radio Pacifica if you can and especially the "Democracy Now" show, some NPR and PBS (Bill Moyers and some Frontline as well as Nova) though they have lost a lot of their nerve along with mainstream news sources. There are a lot of places on the web that can help inform one rather than just mimic the deluded. I peruse http://www.antiwar.com and http://www.buzzflash.com most every day. One needs to exercise being eclectic if you want to get a more precise view of things. If the lies are good enough for you then, my regrets at your misfortune. It is my misfortune too as we share this small planet.
So the 73% of Americans who supported a war on false pretenses are courageous? How, do you think, that argument would have gone over in about 1986, when Iraq was a paid ally of the United States of America? Or in 1982 when the Reagan administration removed Iraq from the terrorist-sponsor list in order to fund it as yet another round of punishment for Iran's refusal to continue to live under an American-backed, illegitimate, tyrannical shah? Or, to sum up the war dogs' argument: Gosh! Saddam needs to be punished for doing the things we paid him to do! But we bear no responsibility for actions we bankrolled. It does make a nice bit of propaganda, Hungvu, but I'm not sure it's fair, or, to be accurate, factually supportable. It's true. Some of them are unfortunately deceived. When the going gets tough, it's not the tough, but the stupid, who rush to warfare. Recent events vindicate "the soft." It's the hard-ons, I mean the hard-liners, who seem to have led this nation into a war on false pretenses. Now, I don't know about you, but supporting murder in order to prop up lies is not something most people undertake casually. Um ... they're criminals this time out, Hungvu. And you can thank their Commander for that. Our contract-killers are supposed to make the world safer for us, not more dangerous. And they're not supposed to go out to enforce falsehood. Welcome to the machine, Hungvu. And welcome to Sciforums. You can invent any war you want, and convince yourself of the necessity. Some of us look to the values so many "noble" wars aspire to and say, "Well, why the hell can't you pursue those noble values?" It would be nice if the "nobility" of our mission was more than a stroke around the Bush.
