Do mediums truly talk with ghostly dead people(for open-minded people)?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by Gravage, Oct 19, 2004.

  1. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    1,241
    So,yes or no,after the world war 2 many people wanted to talk with the dead,some even say that dead soldiers(during wrold war) told where enemies' warehouse of weapons was?
    So,do mediums people really talk to the dead,or it is just another farse?
    Does anyone know are there any truly confrimed mediums who can indeed talk to the dead?
    So,what today's scientists/explorers say about this phenomenon,is it confirmed that imediums truly are speaking with dead or not?
     
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  3. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    My take is simple, Life after death doesn't exist in anyform. Once you die your body just decays and wrots and might be home to some bacteria and bottom of the food chain lifeforms. However what was you, your consciousness and identity are lost forever other than the artifacts you leave behind for future generations like written material, film or your immortalised name in stone as a grave stone.

    Mediums that claim they speak with the dead are either complete frauds in the sense that they know nothing and generalise until they see an expression change within a client or they actually work with a team of investigators that gain the background information on the clients departed love one. For instance if they gain enough information they could string someone into a few visits and charge them a great deal of money to cover both the investigation fees plus their own trumped up commission.

    However on the otherhand it's preposed that the more adventureous scientists and theorists depict it could be possible to "generate" life after death, but it would mean anything "spiritual" like a ghost or loved one would actually be housed in computer framework and projected from that, but that means having the equipment scan them before death which brings about questions as whether the equipment could be used to help the individual by not actually allowing them to die in the first place.

    You could suggest from the latter that such systems could well be attributed to L.A.D.E. (Life After Death Experiences) or O.B.E. (Outter Body Experiences)
     
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  5. It is most probably a scam, at the moment these tv programs are really popular. there are loads of them, and although they do seem really quite amazing. If someone has that kind of power, chances are they wouldn't want to exploit it on television, or they'd be more enlightened to go on TV with it. But Derrern Brown for instance does some stuff that i can't for the life of me figure out, i know he's not spiritual coz he's said he isn't but i really want to know HOW he does that stuff!
     
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  7. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    Well Television studies come from the same backgrounding as Theatrics, therefore it's all Theatre.
     
  8. Visited Registered Member

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    Yes, but I would not have believed it until I had experienced it myself. When my body was taken over by a recently deceased entity I almost panicked but the the spiritual circle I attended the first time told me that I as sitting on the chair of a member that died two days ago, and I could let it go (not it me, get it) because fighting it just made it clutch onto my body even harder.Those ten minutes seemed like an eternity, but other encounters are not nearly so scary, just potentially so,--and it is I that is causing any fear. After death, etc, these are just spirits and cannot have a physical effect that I do not allow. So a medium advised me to create a stronger shield to protect myself from unwanted contact.

    We can't say that we truly encountered a person, just a spirit that can make itslef known by communicating things no one else should know.
     
  9. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    Let me put it like this, I've see this stuff done from the Fraud's side. The current evolution in technologies pretty much means that the creation of a "Spirit" passing through a person although complex is not impossible to generate through machines.

    For instance not all Parapsychologists study Paraphenomona, some actually study how to create man-made effects that "pass off" as paraphenomona. Of course their agenda might be to provide clues over what is fact or fiction, but this is where Frauds tend to step in. It's a known fact that Frauds prey upon the weak, if they spot a weakness they go for it to usually get money or credibility out of someone.

    For instance you might see or feel something near a medium and you might not have parted with money, however if you are running around a circle of friends expressing what you saw and how you felt you are basically fullfilling their advertisement needs and therefore they make fame and fortune through the distortion of facts through "polymorphic whispers". (Once was called "Chinese Whispers" but since it names a country, it appeared racist)
     
  10. Guru Registered Senior Member

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    289
    I read 3 books by John Edwards and the description given in the book really made me think. I was a skeptic and never believed in hear say but when I saw Edward on CNN with Larry david and he spoke to deceased people related to random callers ..one caller was from Japan ...it made me go and get those books.

    I just want to say that I started believing in that stuff ...I am not a religious person and if you have been a regular reader you will see I am more an atheist than follow any religion ...so please do not brush my note as one of those christian ..jesus and bible thumpers...

    I would suggest everyone do some research I did and it made me change my mind ...Think about your soul as a being from 10th dimension ... it can live in all the bodies or multiple bodies at the same time ... so when one dies ...the other can talk to the deceased person by proper meditation or as John Edward says increasing the vibrations.

    (http://www.johnedward.net/)
     
  11. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    I've already mentioned something along that theoretical lines before. It's not so much spiritual as science. For instance "Schrodingers Cat" a famous theoretical experiment involved placing a cat in a box with a particular configuration of apparatus to get a better understanding about the universe.

    In the experiment while the cat was in the box, it existed both alive and dead (due to the causality of a hammer eventually dropping and smashing a posionous gas vial when an atomic substance lost it's radioactive property.)

    The experiment was theoretically taken further with "Wigners Friend" where Wigner decided to add to the conundrum by introducing a human assistant in the cats place. Of course the human shouldn't be killed (nor the cat for that matter) however this then causes another problem (in theory) of two universes being displaced.

    I already know about the "other" universes from when I caught the reflection of parapsychologists taking pictures of a mirror in my flat... From a different "spacetime".
    (Namely I saw them in the mirror behind the camera after it's flash) This is why I'm beyond skeptical and know it all to be smoke and mirrors.
     
  12. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    They don't talk to the dead, they investigate who their next mark is and then CONvinvince them they can talk to the dead and make money in doing so.
     
  13. Guru Registered Senior Member

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    Alright ...I say you read the books and if possible do a search on the larry king shows transcript. I say no way John Edward would have convinced the widow of Space Shuttle astronaut to play along with a crowd of 300+ ... There is a limit to the smoke and mirror ..mostly the law of physics ...John Edwards was tested with other psychics by scientist and they all came up with a very high percentage of information received from the deceased energy ..I don't think a scientist would create or be part of a big hoax when he spent all his life being a skeptic and trying to figure out a scientific reason for these phenomena.
     
  14. shaman_ Registered Senior Member

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    1,467
    I have read some Larry King transcripts and they are not convincing.

    Don't know what you mean by this "There is a limit to the smoke and mirror ..mostly the law of physics ..."

    John Edwards has been tested by Gary Schwartz but the tests have been highly criticised.

    When scientists believe deeply in something that they are testing they are sometimes not objective. Misses are ignored and answers are twisted and distorted to be made into hits. There are scientists who don't seem to be sceptical at all.

    No hoaxing is needed. Just people ready to believe.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2004
  15. FieryIce Tic Toc, World in Cobalt Blue Registered Senior Member

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    It is amazing what evolved advanced technology can accomplish.
     
  16. c20H25N3o Shiny Heart of a Shiny Child Registered Senior Member

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    Mediums are nothing more than well versed neurolinguistic programmers. They are incredibly adept at the reading the person they are performing the seance for.
    Ever seen Derren Brown at work? He would concur with me.

    peace

    c20
     
  17. kmguru Staff Member

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    I had a friend who could channel dead people. I know, she went through a rough childhood. She does not believe she talks to them but somehow words just come to her effortlessly just like we talk normally or the thought come to you when you want a pizza. There must be some part of her brain that starts the story board that she does not actively control...may be that is basic to most of us to say a story that sometimes matches and sometimes does not....all you need is practice....
     
  18. Teri Curious Registered Senior Member

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    I used to, and still do believe that when we die our bodies decay and become just another part of the planet. HOWEVER, things that I've experienced over the past couple of years have caused me to examine other instances that have happened to me in the past decade that I've dismissed as probably just some freaky coincidence. I don't have any reason to lie to anyone; I don't care if anyone believes me or not: I have had experiences which I now believe to be contact by deceased 'energies'. I have no way of explaining it and I don't want to try to convince anyone that it's happened.

    So I guess I'm just trying to say to the skeptics that the world thought the earth was flat once. I hope some day I learn to control my contact but at the moment I don't know when or where I am going to experience it. To those who believe something is there, I can say with certainty (although I still find it hard to believe) that stuff does happen and it's not me or anyone alive causing it.

    Cheers
    Teri
     
  19. slotty Colostomy-its not my bag Registered Senior Member

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    I have an open mind, but there is no such thing as a true medium. They are very adept at asking leading questions and cold reading. I have seen a few on the TV and does'nt take very long to see how they manipulate the crowd. Like i said, i have an open mind, but mediums really are a total fraud
     
  20. kmguru Staff Member

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    Hello Teri...just because you can not explain how brain works (I recommend the book: On Intelligence) does not mean you have to believe that people talk to dead people. At the same time, if that is true and scientifically proven then we can seek other explanations as to what happens to our consciousness when we die. Until then, such items are not ture - it is magic, a show.
     
  21. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    If it is a real phenomenon, talking to the dead, then why don't mediums use their gift to transcribe stories, poetry and history from humanity's best, but lost, minds? Surely Walt Whitman had more poetry in him. Or Poe one more frightening tale to tell. Couldn't they find Hoffa? Couldn't they get new insights from Einstein or Feynman? Wouldn't Sagan have something to say?

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    Hell, I'd even bet some of the Apostles (or those that knew them) could offer some interesting insights and first-hand perspectives on a few events. What really happened at the Crucifiction?

    Instead, Edwards and his ilk offer only a good cold read to a few willing participants. There have even been investigative reporters that have exposed the John Edwards show methodology that is used to cheat the marks.
     
  22. Teri Curious Registered Senior Member

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    All the things you all have said are logical and make sense to me. I still don't know exactly how I feel about John Edward. I can't say for certain I believe everything. The thing is I'm not saying I talk to anyone (only in the sense of thinking about that particular person and asking a mental question) but I don't get answers per se, I get strange signs or occurrences.

    My experiences have been mainly lights coming on and later going off after thinking about particular people who have died -not everyone, only those that have been close to me.

    Other times I lie in bed and I feel 'something' that feels like a cat or kitten, walk over my legs on top of the blanket. One night I swear that my hair was being messed up by 'something' while I was lying in bed, and that too felt like a kitten playing with a ball of wool (my head being the wool!)

    I'll lie there feeling this for a short time, absolutely straining to possibly hear something; but there is no noise. Finally I have to turn on a light and of course there's nothing there. The first few times I told myself it was my imagination; that I must have been subconsciously thinking of something that may have triggered these things. But it's times where I know I've been sleeping, and suddenly wake-up, opening my eyes, and being fully aware of a presence. It has freaked me out a little and I still feel like an idiot even talking about it.

    But it's happening and I can't pretend it hasn't. A lot of other weird coincidences have compounded my belief in this, but they're too numerous to mention and too easily dismissed as coincidences or some other such explanation.

    SkinWalker, I agree with your question - why is everything so elusive? Why don't these entities comunicate with us in a manner we can absolutely not doubt?

    Slotty, I'm not sure of 'true' mediums either. And Kmguru (glad to see a familiar name by the way) the human brain is a facinating subject. I'd like to read a lot more and any of your recommendations are welcome.

    All I want to say is I have felt these things and if they are explained away one day I won't be upset. But for now, there is no explanation and I don't want to force anyone to believe me. I find myself shrugging my shoulders thinking 'oh well, shit happens I guess.' I still don't know.

    So if things have happened to you, I'll understand: And if you don't believe a word of it, I'll understand that also.

    Be happy.
    Cheers
    Teri
     
  23. Silas asimovbot Registered Senior Member

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    Then stop believing that stuff straight away. John Edward's books are hardly going to be objective, neither is he going to detail the real techniques by which he achieves his effects. John Edward will talk in terms of "10th dimension" and "vibrations", but there is no actual evidence for such things - it's simply the mumbo-jumbo by which he maintains his (for want of a better word) credibility with the credulous.

    There is a limit to smoke and mirrors, but that limit is far from being breached by anything that happens in a TV studio filled with people willing to be duped; which is the standard mode for anyone in the audience at a séance programme, including, undoubtedly, the widows of Space Shuttle astronauts. You don't explain how Edwards and the other psychics were supposedly tested by a scientist, but since there is no such (scientific) phenomenum as "deceased energy", it sounds like the person doing the testing was into some kind of fraud himself.

    Teri, you are suffering from a variety of sleep-related mental phenomena, such as sleep paralysis. You do not experience anything other than through your consciousness, so in fact your initial impression (that it was just your imagination) was the correct one. I don't want to denigrate how you feel about this, in fact what I am trying to do is to reassure you. It is very easy for people to get into a cycle of negative feedback from such experiences - and I know that they can be very frightening indeed. Viz Visited's experience:
    But if you'd seen a doctor or psychologist, it's unlikely that they would have put you through such a horrifying experience for the sole purpose of strengthening your belief in the supernatural. The spiritual circle may not be deliberate con artists, but they have a vested interest in maintaining the purported reality of whatever phenomena they can interpret as showing the existence of spirits. Whereas a doctor or psychologist would only be interested in your mental well-being, and would, I guarantee you, carefully steer you away from paranormal explanations for what happened to you.
     

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