TheHun, So what? We're talking about orange juice specifically I said: ''The taste is the orange. One could be forgiven for thinking the ultimate purpose of the orange is its taste'', do keep up. Wtf are you babbling on about? An orange has a particular taste which we can identify as ''an orange''. Period. ??? Your being paranoid. My point is, an O is ultimately about it's taste. It has little to no other essence, and the soul is regarded as the essential component in living things. I'm not being religious, I'm not trying convert you, I am simply schooling you on what is regarded as the the soul. You can either believe that there is a component like the soul, or not. I don't really give a rat's ass. Then wtf are you participating in this thread for? I know you don't think souls are real. But what makes you think I'm attempting to make them real? I'm explaining what the term ''soul'' means at specific level, namely the essential component. There is no need to invoke science, pseudo, natural, or bullshit. What is it that makes an orange an orange if not it's taste? I didn't insist that it is defined by it's taste, but understand that it is an orange by it's taste, whereas we can see a convincing model of an orange, and be convinced it is an orange until we taste it. In the same way we can be fooled into thinking something taste like an orange if we don't drink or eat oranges on a regular basis. But artificially flavoured orange juice does not taste like real orange juice, to one who is used to the real taste of orange. One more time, I can enjoy the taste of real orange and still NOT have an orange in hand. If you replicate the taste of orange, then you have no orange. jan.