Does Chaos Theory prove a Mathematically Ordered Universe

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by Write4U, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. river

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    How does any this prove your threads point ?
     
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    But it's a misleading statement.
    There is no atomic "core". There is an atomic nucleus, which consists of protons and neutrons and provide the mass of the nucleus. That is why an atom is the smallest dense mathematical pattern that qualifies as "matter".
    All sub-atomic patterns are mathematical quantum values.

    Atomic nucleus


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    A model of the atomic nucleus showing it as a compact bundle of the two types of nucleons: protons (red) and neutrons (blue). In this diagram, protons and neutrons look like little balls stuck together, but an actual nucleus (as understood by modern nuclear physics) cannot be explained like this, but only by using quantum mechanics. In a nucleus which occupies a certain energy level (for example, the ground state), each nucleon can be said to occupy a range of locations.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_nucleus


     
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  5. river

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    Physically exists . Whats your point Write4U .
     
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Chaos Theory demonstrates that matter forms from "mathematical quantum values. It is the fundamental tenet of the Chaos Theory, that within disordered chaos specific recurring patterns emerge. Any recurring phenomenon is by definition a mathematical object.

    Hence, if Chaos Theory is correct, it suggests a mathematical essence to the self-ordering and evolution of the fabric of the universe.
    See previously posted link to CDT .
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_dynamical_triangulation

    Ask, what was causal to the initial state of universal Chaos before "matter" dense patterns emerged?
     
  8. river

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    No it doesn't .
     
  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    An atomic nucleus is not a singular object.
    An atomic nucleus is a compound pattern of sub-atomic mathematical quantum values. It does not exist independently as a complex pattern (object).

    There is NO irreducible complexity.
     
  10. river

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    [QUOTE="Write4U, post: 3645776, member: 261885" ]An atomic nucleus is not a singular object.
    An atomic nucleus is a compound pattern of sub-atomic mathematical quantum values. It does not exist independently as a complex pattern (object).

    There is NO irreducible complexity.[/QUOTE]

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    Doesn't matter Write4U , what matters is the physical reality of the atom .

    There is irreducible of physical things .
     
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    What then is it and where did it come from?
    Mathematical object
    Some examples are:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_object
     
  12. river

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    Yeah but so what Write4U ? Nothing that you have presented proves that mathematics , alone , manifests as something physical .
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Where have I disputed that?
    You keep refusing to acknowledge that the atom is not the smallest object in the universe. An atom is the smallest form of "matter"! The "Table of Elements" is the list of various forms of "matter".
    Periodic table
    This article is about the table used in chemistry and physics.

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table#
     
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I made no such claim.
    My claim is that matter emerges from the mathematical self-ordering of "relational values via mathematical functions (mathematically defined processes) and that the Chaos Theory confirms that there exists a mathematical "ordering imperative" to Natural Laws (constants).

    This does not materially affect any of the sciences in a non-trivial way. It explains the self-ordering processes of sub-atomic values into physical objects (matter). The Universal mathematical "guiding equations" of physical behaviors.

    The benefits of a Mathematical Universe is explained in depth by several prominent scientists.

    I believe this posit by Tegmark is profound; All scientists agree that the Universe has "some" mathematical properties. I propose that the Universe has "only" mathematical properties as a fundamental property of spacetime.

    What's the Universe Made Of? Math, Says Scientist
    By
    Tanya Lewis January 30, 2014
    https://www.livescience.com/42839-the-universe-is-math.html#
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  15. river

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    Same difference .

    You have not proved that mathematics , affects anything physical , in and of its its self .

    What you have shown is that the physical forms the mathematics .
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,613
    You are still resisting. Mathematics affects everything because that's all there is. Physical patterns are mathematical constructs.
    I have disproven that perspective with the link to the fact that certain purely theoretical mathematical equations, developed without thought to physics, proved to be perfectly suitable for explaining physical patterns and functions as well. Which again proves that spacetime is fundamentally a mathematical pattern, which emerged from the chaotic quantum "soup" (quantum foam) as physical densities, but can be analyzed with mathematics alone.

    Don't forget that the word "physics" is just as much a human invention as the word "mathematics". Why do you lend more weight to physics than to mathematics?
    You cling to the term "physics" from "convention". Conventional physics is not always correct, as has been mathematically proven a few times.......

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    You can prove or disprove physics with mathematics but you cannot prove or disprove mathematics with physics. Who are you going to call??
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Have you looked at a spiral galaxy lately? How did this object self-organized into becoming a spiral? How did the Fibonacci sequence become a fundamental property of so many disparate natural "patterns" and exponential functions? What is the physical law that expresses itself as an exponential function?
     
  18. river

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    By the objects in that space , rotation , magnetic fields .

    You keep ignoring the Truth of the Physical . Being the foundation of of all patterns and functions in mathematics .
     
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    And the prime concern, with which without we wouldn't be here...Gravity!!!!
    But perhaps you are floating in space river, unaffected by gravity...you certainly appear off the planet!

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    No you ignore the truth and always have, particularly when it conflicts with your debunked electric universe nonsense.
    Bingo!!! Why do you ignore that fact river?
    Because mathematics plays no part in the debunked schemozzle of an idea that is the electric universe?
     
  20. river

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    Its not about disproving mathematics and its role in understanding things .

    Its about showing that the physical is fundamental to mathematics .
     
  21. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Maths is not disproved.
    Philosophical ranting.
    Matter/energy do not exist apart from the spacetime from which it arose.
    GR tells us that that what we call space is simply the gravitational field of the universe, spacetime cannot exist apart from the matter and energy that creates the gravitational field.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  22. river

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    Not at all . Mathematics is the consequence of physical .

    Mathematics in and of its self can not form a physical thing .
     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    No one is saying different.
    No, that suggests Intelligent Design by an abstract mathematician and is incompatible with evolutionary processes and scientific rigor in general.
    You're trying very hard to disprove mathematics as the self-ordering patterns of matter from sub-atomic quantum values, fundamental to the evolutionary processes from the very subtle to gross expression in reality.

    In a deterministic universe, Mathematics provide the the Implicate order and physics provide the Explicate order.

    OK, show it.

    I have proven that physics are dense patterns of self-ordered mathematical relational values.
    Now you prove that mathematics are result of physical what, affinity? (your words).
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020

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