Does God use a full disclosure policy or does he hide information?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Greatest I am, Feb 10, 2011.

  1. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    So you're saying that this is one of those "Dog Works In Mysterious Ways" kind of things, and "It Is Not Up To Us To Question The Ways Of The Lord".

    I don't know that that would really be considered an answer, but is certainly provides you with an out.
     
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  3. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    No
    I am saying that even disclosure of the mail box requires knowledge of where the mail box is

    If one is of the attitude that mail will find its way into the living room if its really important, one probably won't get much mail ...
     
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  5. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    So, no answer.
     
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  7. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    sure, much like there is no answer for anyone wondering why they don't get disclosure on anything if all they do is sit on their laurels

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  8. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    here
     
  9. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

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    The Wiz is not telling us what He is because She is conducting a quiz?
     
  10. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    Nowhere did I say any such thing. You asked if I would do something if a god told me to do it. I said it depends on what it is. This is the same as it would be for any human.

    Unsure how you got that from the statement which was there merely to refute your earlier objection, (that 'god' wouldn't say any such thing). The question itself assumed our ability to know that it was talking to us - as it would be with any human but I don't see how knowing that a human or god is telling you to do something means "no choice".

    Baseless assertion and it certainly is, in the theistic scheme, considered a chosen reality of our existence - although I don't see its relevance to the question as originally asked and my original answer to it.

    The question did not say: "If god threatens you with death unless..." you simply asked if a god told me to do something whether I'd do it or not, to which I answered: It depends what it's telling me to do - as it would with any human.

    Another baseless assertion. In the theistic scheme of course it certainly is a choice: Kill someone or do not kill them. As you continue: "( i wouldn't)". See?

    Your 'belief' in what a god would or wouldn't is irrelevant to the question but makes it meaningless. If you adapted the question to say: "If god asked you to do something that he already knew you were going to do would you do it", then the answer should be obvious but the question becomes pointless.

    This is, in actuality, the cowards version of: "It's fiction". Of course the theist can't use such terms because it shows the worthlessness of the entire subject so he says: "I don't believe it's inerrant", which is to say: "I believe that it's fictional - but only whenever it suits me". For what it's worth, I recognise that the bible is fictional as well.

    1. In absence of the snake, Adam and Eve would still have the free will to disobey. The fruit still exists and they have hands to pick them with, mouths to eat them with and functioning brains with which to decide to do so.

    2. The above silliness is equivalent to telling your child not to stick their hands in the socket but then requiring someone to tell them to do the opposite because otherwise they'll never do it. The reality is that at the moment he tells them not to do something, he recognises their ability to do the opposite, otherwise telling them is pointless.

    3. What you are doing is assuring that they fall - "They'd never make the wrong free choice unless..", (god knows what it would take to ensure they fall and makes sure it happens. This makes such god implicit in the crime and equally evil to the snake).
     
  11. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Case in point.
    I agree it is a silly tale but we both insult believers by saying so If we were speaking of Odin doing it, a theist would be hard pressed to attack us for attacking his silly belief system.
    We could then hide behind a ----that is not what I said but if the shoe fits your God then let him wear it.
    Some would see this as political correctness and I admit to being too honest to play that game much.
    This does not prevent me from seeing some of the benefits of political correctness.

    If I was less of an absent minded professor type I would use that method more but it is not my style.

    Regards
    DL
     
  12. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    ""3. What you are doing is assuring that they fall - "They'd never make the wrong free choice unless..", (god knows what it would take to ensure they fall and makes sure it happens. This makes such god implicit in the crime and equally evil to the snake).""

    Proof is in the doing.

    One cannot say that they can do this or that without actualizing the doing.

    I can tell myself forever that I can do this or that, IE, talk back to my wife, but without doing it I cannot ever quite know for sure that I can.

    I am telling you here and now that I can.

    Some day I will prove it.
    Trust me I will. I will be quite drunk but I swear to God some day I will. LOL.

    Speaking of autonomy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxyLZyBjyvY

    Regards
    DL
     
  13. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    You keep making these crazy-making analogies and stating truisms.
     
  14. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    do you thinK the act of disclosure is devoid of any epistemological framework?
     
  15. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    I will let my post just above speak to most of this and will just point out your selective reading. You did not speak of the benefits of disobeying or why God held back that huge consequence.

    Regards
    DL
     
  16. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    I agree.
    NMSquirrel sees something in that link that I do not as well. Then he is saying that I do not understand his point that is shown in the clip.

    We are of course wrong and he is of course right.

    Regards
    DL
     
  17. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Duh. Of course there is a massive epistemological framework. Or at least there seems to be. Several practical issues too.

    But, to use your analogy, how can one know where to go for the mailbox, when different theists point in different directions, claiming all kinds of things to be the mailbox?? Moreover, the different theists also describe the mail to be all kinds of things.
    And then one is expected to accept that if one didn't find the mail or doesn't like it, that doesn't mean one hasn't actually found it.


    Again, my point is that one cannot intentionally seek after something that one does not yet know.

    If someone told me "Seek, and perchance you will find something useful and truthful", that makes more sense and is less frustrating (albeit still frustrating), than being told "God to the right mailbox, even though you don't know which one that is."
     
  18. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    then you don't have the same problem as alexG, who can't even locate the general direction of the mail
     
  19. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Generally speaking, who teaches children, men or women?

    Compare the number of house husbands and housewives.
    Compare the numbers of men teachers through the formative years as compared to women teachers.

    Now try bashing men for how children are raised again.

    Regards
    DL
     
  20. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    But what does knowing the "general direction of the mail" help me?


    I can make a good argument that the concept of "choosing a spiritual path" is illogical in itself.
     
  21. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    The third party in this case was the talking snake and yes, it did give the positive information that God omitted.
    Any judge would agree that God erred in not disclosing the huge consequence that he did not inform his children about.

    A secular analogy would be a parent not ever telling his children about schools and keeping them forever under his thumb and working on the farm where education is just a useless commodity.

    Regards
    DL
     
  22. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    I don't know what it is you are talking about.

    What I was talking about however was that 0 effort = 0 disclosure
     
  23. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    I think you will go hungry for an answer with any substance.

    When theists see such wonderfully stated simple question, they know that they are better to ignore than to look more silly than they usually do.

    Note the answer that you received so far.

    The theist song that shows what they think of your good question.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo

    Regards
    DL
     

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