Does God use a full disclosure policy or does he hide information?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Greatest I am, Feb 10, 2011.

  1. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    Yet all you did here was bitch that it is in the wrong forum instead of refuting the premise because all you can see is imperfection. Oh well. Perhaps you are one that was born less than what nature and your DNA could produce.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  3. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    There seems to be a conflict between these two notions; namely, between "All living entities are provided with all necessities" and "Living entities get what they deserve and desire."


    What is a necessity? The opportunity to receive according to one's deserving and desiring?
    And if so, why is it called a "necessity"?
     
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  5. birch Valued Senior Member

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    5,077
    i'm sure i was in some way, which would negate your idea that creation is perfect, wouldn't it? what i found contradictory was your belief that creation is perfect yet you have issues with religious points of morality and religion. it should be a non-issue if everything in nature works for the best and how it should be. even those who have religious beliefs that differ from you, after all creation is perfect and they are part of it. but it seems you really don't believe that or you are confused.

    sorry, your reply doesn't make sense. your topic is all about issues with imperfection. again, confusion.
     
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  7. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    True, but one still has to put in effort (sometimes great amounts of effort) to get these things, and often enough, they are impossible to get.
    In the light of this difficulty, it is hard and sometimes impossible to say that "All living entities are provided with all necessities".
     
  8. birch Valued Senior Member

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    5,077
    in genesis, the story of adam and eve has so much symbolism it's really up to interpretation if not taken word for word.

    the usual christian interpretation is that god is creator of all things good and the devil represented by the serpent was the bringer of evil through temptation.

    but this can be interpreted in any number of ways. if god really was an all powerful being, why would it allow the serpent in the garden of eden? christians believe because god wants humans to have free-will. it is inevitable that just by the nature of curiosity that adam and eve also possessed had not eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, one of their descendents eventually would anyways. the tree of knowledge and the serpent could be signified as the knowledge of evil and therefore how to use evil means to live or gain.

    this symbolism would signify either that god really is not as powerful or the creator of all but creator of good which would absolve it of responsibility for the existence of evil or that he is the creator of all and therefore evil. the devil could be a symbol for a dual or parallel reality or force that is co-existing or in conflict. defined as the creator of the setup as well as the serpent would indicate an immoral god. did evil actually exist and adam and eve were just not aware of it or did evil start with their awareness of it, thus the ability to utilize it? this is where it gets tricky because ignorance does not necessarily equate to innocence or goodness. after all, the interpretation is that even god has the knowledge of both good and evil yet he rejects evil. even with knowledge of evil, one can actually reject or be repulsed by it. the idea proposed in the bible that they were automatically tainted after attaining this knowledge of evil symbolizes a dual nature or that god really did not have control over this opposing force. ironically, when christian doctrine defines that it does but somehow god allows it, is defining a god that condones evil. so again, what god's nature is can be defined by what one thinks it is responsible for. it would seem the garden of eden was heaven and earth where they were cast down which would really signify this universe as well as it's laws. the toiling and death that would be their life. under this premise, this negates the idea that creation is perfect in the moral sense. after all, it has all been tainted according to this story. even with this duality, perhaps why good is given the distinction of eventually overpowering evil in the end is probably based on the idea that evil is based on deception and lies (the serpent was a liar and deceiver) but unfortunately that can continue to work and constantly be a thorn in the side of existence until the system is broken or no longer in existence, thus the separation and concept of heaven and hell. i don't think the catholic interpretation makes much sense. this universe would be likened to purgatory with the duality and conflict and heaven and hell the components whereby all eventually disperse according to it's nature in the end.

    this whole metaphor could totally be flipped to where god is represented as the deciever keeping adam and eve ignorant and enslaved to it's will and the serpent the knowledge or clarity to be aware of deception, that is if the garden of eden really wasn't and was just an illusion.

    really, either one of these would work with regard to the duality, it's just replacing different actors in the role though the first story works the best as it's more fleshed out already.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2011
  9. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    16,330
    even in a worst case scenario, if the living entity leaves its body, it is awarded another body to inhabit


    What is necessary,as far as conditioned existence is concerned, is to have a body to express one's desires and to have certain requirements to sustain one's material mind and body.

    That said, its the nature of material desire to be conflicted (as in the case of parents vs the unwanted child, or ants envious of your chocolate bar), but given that the living entities aren't committing suicide in droves, it seems to be working ok (and even if one does throw in the towel in the human form of life, being awarded an animal body seems to be satisfactory, as exemplified by mr. Pig in the picture posted earlier in the thread)
     
  10. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    16,330
    on an ultimate level, we have no control over the base requirements for existence

    IOW no matter how much you know or how much money you have, you can't tamper with the base conditions that provide us with air to breathe and food to eat (or even the ability to transform these things into a vital force that we can sustain ourselves.

    In short, we are dependent
     
  11. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    And you will remain confused if you do not understand this------and the logic it shows.

    Candide

    "It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPClzIsYxvA

    Or think that you where less than you could be when born.---With the conditions at hand.

    You cannot see the forest for the trees.

    Regards
    DL
     
  12. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    Yes.

    The Gnostics and others have many views. Literalist are of course way off base as usual.

    http://www.gnosis.org/genesis.html

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxyLZyBjyvY

    Regards
    DL
     
  13. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    15,058
    Tell me about it!

    Our whole family has been down with a bad cold, myself for the third week now!
    Bad cough, sleepless nights, headaches, feverish outbursts, congested lungs, and oodles of nasty snot. Uh! And no medication seems to help. And my sense of smell is gone!

    I have ample opportunity to think about my dependence ...
     
  14. birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    i said there is no reason for you to pose the question you do if you believe what you claim. also, your beliefs are no different than most creationists in that it is perfect, you are just squabbling over nitpicky details. therefore, you are confused because you are on the same side.

    so? if creation is perfect, can't really fault them, can you?

    also, most do accept evolution (or at least creation story is symbolism) and that the universe was created by god( therefore a purpose) or believe it's it's an intelligent design.

    you are no different than a theist except for some minor inconsequential details but you don't realize it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2011
  15. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    5,478
    what is the one motivator that encourage you to disobey your parents and do something that they say would harm you?

    would you have followed your parents rules if you did not have friends to temp you to go against them?

    would you break the law if there was no motivation to?
     
  16. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    13,968

    Huh!
    What do you mean by "Quite a swollen head you have there."

    Please explain what you mean by "I was speaking of what God is shown to have not told A & E."

    jan.
     
  17. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    True to a point. What is has always been here to contemplate and the wise men of old did and put what they saw in what I call the books of wisdom. Those are mostly what we call Bibles and Words.

    My apotheosis has shown that the creationist thinking is silly and that evolution is what has brought us to this point in time.

    Look at nature through evolutions eyes for just a moment in stop time and if bright, you will see perfection with nature doing the best it can with the DNA and conditions at hand.

    If you cannot see perfection, then I see further than you and am your better in these things. accept it or reject it. I do not care.

    "It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

    Regards
    DL
     
  18. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    Did God tell A & E that there eyes would be opened? No.
    Did he tell them they would become as Gods? No.
    Did he tell them about all the consequences to them and us that he was going to arbitrarily impose? No.

    His just threw a huge sissy fit.

    Regards
    DL
     
  19. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

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    3,028
    Please do not think of naked people.



    Well, that's OK, for we had to, just as when we see something, especially some new thing, we think of what we can do with it, even if its just to throw it in the trash.

    Children, especially, may find it hard not to touch something that say 'Do not touch."

    The concept of 'God' fails once again.
     
  20. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    13,968
    Greatest I am,

    Open to what?
    The damnation of a proportion of their generations?

    They were better than gods.
    They had God as a personal companion.
    They lived in a heavenly place.
    They were immortal.

    What was that?

    God doesn't do sissy fits.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    jan.
     
  21. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

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    3,028
    It's just that all this Eden stuff didn't really happen. The Philippine Catholic Bible even has an asterisk on it, saying so at the bottom of the page; so, even theism has moved on, although it is running out of room everywhere.
     
  22. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,740

    Look again for the first time. take your head out of his God sized A hole first. The view is then possible to see.

    Regards
    DL
     
  23. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    5,478
    you have said absolutely nothing..
     

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