Does mathematics really exist in nature or is math just a human construct?

This is getting off-topic. I don't think 'do humans have a different existence than animals?' is going to help us answer the question of the existence of mathematics in the physical world.

 

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BS. brucep. Humanity is all that matters along with this planet.

There are sociopathic people out there no doubt ; would you give into their actions? You seem to.

 

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does logic dictate an animals behavior? Like for example if you set up a trap to catch an animal and he could see it don't you think he would avoid it?

 

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Mathematics has been said to be a universal language. So much so that the messages on the Voyager space craft, which has now left our solar system is delivered in part in mathematical terms.
http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/spacecraft/goldenrec1.html

Most humans on earth can only understand their own national language and maybe one or two others, out of many.
But all reasonably literate people everywhere all have Pi at precisely the same value, all get the answer 4 in question to 2+2 and all have the same formula for finding the area of a circle. And I venture to say that this would apply universally. Perhaps more correctly, maths is the language of physics and the laws of physics are universal.

The other point I would raise is the aspect of infinities. Numbers are infinite....we can go on and on and on and on and on, counting to our hearts content.
The only other construct that I know to be possibly thought of as infinite is spacetime/universe itself.

And of course this question about the reality or otherwise of mathematics is purely and simply a philosophical question.
In summing, I'm still certain that mathematics is simply the language of physics and the laws of physics are universal.

 

Sure

But whats your point ?

 

Mathematics is based on perspective pad.

The purpose of mathematics is the same; understanding dynamics and non-dynamics of objects.

 

Why don't you address what I have said?

 

Perhaps the question itself is somewhat misleading.

IMO, the universe exist by way of *mathematical values, functions, and equations* which humans can identify (translate) through human symbolic mathematical language , IOW, shorthand symbolic descriptions of these values, functions, and equations.

According to Max Tegmark, the universe does not have some mathematical properties, it has *only* mathematical functions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuGI6pQFZC0

 

I see that as supporting my claim that maths is the language of physics and physics and the laws of physics are universal.

I've watched a few of Max Tégmark's stuff and enjoy.
I'll also watch this lengthy video at another time.

 

Because you are referring to pure mathematics .

 

correct.

 

I agree, the universe works through strict mathematical functions. Most of these functions, *constants* have been *discovered* and translated into human mathematics.

Thus the answer to the OP question is *both*. The Universe works through an orderly and consistent (mathematical) function. Humans have been able to recognize and formalize these functions in human symbolic language, which we call "Mathematics".

 

I mentioned math as seen in nature. You said "show it." I showed you math expressed in nature; in the case above, the Fibonacci sequence.

Of course. And what governs those forces and chemistry? Even more basic forces. All of them are related to each other and can be measured and quantized. They obey very specific mathematical relationships that describe their behavior. That doesn't mean that they started obeying them once we discovered them; they always obeyed them, because those mathematical relationships have always existed.

Right. And that evolution led to the expression of a Fibonacci sequence. As I mentioned before, call it something different and that sunflower will grow in exactly the same way - because the math that underlies their growth won't change no matter what you call it.

Exactly. And those sunflowers don't know anything about biology or physics. It would be silly to claim that therefore sunflowers are not governed by biology or physics.

 

Every human suffers from some level of sociopathy. Your's is more than a normal share. As evidenced that you think only humans matter. Believing in the creation myth just gives you license to make illiterate comments and to behave with disrespect towards the species that inhabit this planet including humans.

 

You misunderstand me ;

Humanity comes first ; with the harmony of every living being on this planet.

Creation myth? Where did that come from?

 

Ah yes, the triangle, the most fundamental 2D closed structure (plane) that can exist. This basic structure itself has remarkable properties, regardless of size or configuration. It is also the fundamental component of fractals and we all have seen the incredible power of fractals.
The current focus in cosmology is the fractal structure of the universe. Causal Dynamical Triangulation (CDT) by Renate Loll, et al)

 

Can you clarify that statement? As posited, it is meaningless (to me)

Ignorance of reality.

 

But not to me .

Humanity can't live ; survive ; without a place to live.

 

That's better, it acknowledges that harmony in our environment is beneficial (necessary) for humanity.

Allow me a different view, *the natural harmony (balance) of every living being on this planet gave rise to humans". We are but one product of evolution of every living thing in a nurturing biosphere (Mother Earth).

But natural selection has favored our survivability because of our versatility, not for our divinity.

Ironically, now that *mother earth* has produced *children* with the ability to act as grown-ups, the grown-up children never live in harmony with other living beings, except for our *pets* and *as food".

But if there is a truly a *divine* living organism on earth, it would have to be the honey-bee (a truly beneficial symbiotic organism), which is reponsible for feeding some 60% of all land animals. And we're killing them off now also.

Humans do not live within the harmony of nature, we are an invasive species, everywhere.

But to tie this to the OP, a beehive is marvel of mathematical architecture, as are termite hills. Of course they have had 300 million years to get it just right.

The point is that there is a mathematical aspect (essence) to everything on earth and in the universe.

 

And that is the sum of your "experience" in life, is it?