Does religion make us better people?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Magical Realist, Aug 18, 2013.

  1. arauca Banned Banned

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  3. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

    Seek and ye shall find.
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  5. arauca Banned Banned

    I strolled a few of them , I have noticed them giving for atheist causes and for atheism promotion. Can you find how did atheist contributed to Oklahoma tornado disaster.
    ( I am not picking I am just curious ) or Long Island in New York ?
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  7. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    My statement has been misquoted 3 times. "Believing in a sin AND judging people's thoughts and actions." No..I don't do that. I don't believe in sin and judge people's thoughts and actions by that standard. I don't think less of people because of their sexual orientation or personal lifestyle. I don't view people as deserving of eternal hell just because they have different beliefs than mine. And I don't believe people are primarily motivated by some inherited sinful impulse to do evil and be selfish. No..I don't judge people. People DO make mistakes. But that doesn't mean they are sinful wretches deserving of castigation or punishment or violence.
  8. arauca Banned Banned

    " Jesus was the most selfish prick on earth." I can't think of a more selfish and arrogant attitude. No wonder he got himself crucified." Is that a passing judgement ? That is your writing. Jesus would forgive you and me.
  9. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Honestly I don't fault the man for being a raving megalomaniac. He DID get a lot of ribbing for being the bastard son of Mary while growing up. Can you imagine bearing this sort of stigma in such a paternalist Jewish community? This in turn led to a huge complex about being the TRUE son, the one and ONLY son, not of Joseph the Carpenter but of Jehovah himself. At most he was probably just mentally ill, messiah complexes being quite common even nowadays in your average psych ward. Ativan might've helped with that trip.
  10. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Not sure who you think has misquoted you, given that most of us have just used the quote function to quote your post word for word... But we may have misunderstood. I'm not sure it makes too much difference, though, as we all judge to some degree, and it is just the manner in which we develop the yardstick by which we judge that perhaps differentiates us.
    What is the specific difference between religious and non-religious you are trying to stress here?
  11. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    It all ties back up to the OP title--DOES religion make us better people, "better" taken in the sense of either more ethical or more psychologically well-adjusted. The example of judging/condemning people based on the concept of sin was given to highlight a mindset that is not symptomatic of well-adjustedness. Not that there wouldn't have been judgemental people anyway. But religion gives judgementality an enabling format with the teaching that we are all sinners in the hands of an angry God awaiting judgment. It's like putting gasoline on a tiny flame. I cite this as an example of religion making us worse people. There is something fundamentally misanthropic about seeing human nature is inherently wicked and weak, ever in need of divine intervention in order for it to reach even a moderately tolerable level of acceptableness before an ever-scrutinizing deity.

    The Biblical basis for original sin:
  12. arauca Banned Banned


    You are trying to play with words to much . Sin . is basically any thing you do to me that is damaging , you steel from me , you injure me physically or verbally , you are committing sin against me . I don't like homosexuals , but if a homosexual is injured or hungry I am supposed to help if I don't I an committing a sin a sin against creation ,
  13. geeser Atheism:is non-prophet making Valued Senior Member

    Because given the right incentive they all have the potential to do evil.
    As you asked: Just a few charitable atheist organizations.

    The main atheists charities being Médecins Sans Frontières, Médecins du Monde and Aide médicale internationale Which I think you will find are in every other war-torn or famine ravaged country in the world.
    And theres.
    Amnesty international
    Center for Victims of Torture
    Human Rights First (formerly Lawyers Committee for Human Rights)
    Human Rights Watch
    Gifts in Kind International
    Action Against Hunger – USA
    Food Bank for New York City (formerly Food for Survival)
    Reading is Fundamental
    Population Action International
    Big Brothers/Big Sisters of America – N.O.
    Homes For Our Troops
    Sunshine Foundation
    Compassion & Choices
    National Alliance for Research on Schizophrenia and Depression (NARSAD)
    Mental Health America (formerly National Mental Health Association)
    American Foundation for Suicide Prevention
    Population Connection
    Plan USA
    I R Teams
    Direct Relief

    Hope that helps.
  14. geeser Atheism:is non-prophet making Valued Senior Member

    Arauca: Do you do gods bidding without question? Do you follow Jesus without question?
  15. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    The Bible defines sin in a much deeper sense than just actions. Sin is like a disease of the soul we are all supposed to be afflicted with at birth. No matter what we do, we are are always sinful. Even our righteous deeds are sinful:

    Isa 64:6 "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

    That's a very pessimistic outlook. And if you view yourself and others as inherently immoral, that leads to all sorts of other issues like trust, self-esteem, ambition, and moral conscience. Cuz if everything you do and think is sinful, what's the point in trying to be different? It lays the foundation for self-hate, and with self-hate there is always the likelihood of hating others as well.
  16. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Hmmm, not quite how the story goes, but ok. lol

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  17. lightgigantic Banned Banned

    These are not atheist charities.
    They are simply organized by secular interests
  18. lightgigantic Banned Banned

    So how do you explain such individuals drawing criticism from theists ....even on theological or philosophical grounds?
    Given that the list of secular charities you provided earlier are supported by numerous religiously minded individuals, it appears you have reverted to a definition of atheist charity akin to the sale of Dawkins coffee mugs.
  19. lightgigantic Banned Banned

  20. lightgigantic Banned Banned

    So what are your views on a legal system.
    How do you propose to organize society without judgment and punishment?
  21. geeser Atheism:is non-prophet making Valued Senior Member

    And we can say the very same about religious charities, can't we. "There are no religious charities. They are simply organized by religious interests" The point was that charitable acts are not exclusive to the religious. And I was just answering a request.
    Strawman! Irrelevant! The original statement by Steven Weinberg. States "With or without religion you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things." So there are bound to be people from the religious side that feel morally outraged.
    And religious charities are supported by numerous atheistic minded individuals, your point being. What!

    The fact you seem to think charity is only religious based, shows you are a despicable human being. I don't need anyone to tell me to be charitable, yet you seem to think people cant be charitable without a sky daddy.

    Religion has proven itself to be the most devisive pervasive cult, known to man.
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Some of the most horrid unjust people in the world are otherwise religious.....
    Some of the most horrid unjust people in the world are also atheist, and/or agnostic.....
    Some of the most genuine caring people in the world are also highly religious.....
    Some of the most genuine caring people in the world are also atheists and/or agnostic......

    The usual bullying and shit stirring from both sides, highlight the nastiness, and pettiness that some people have for those that happen to see things differently, on either side of the spectrum.
    The crusading spirit and flag-waving of the professional atheist, and his continuing deriding of religious folk, remind me exactly of the rantings and ravings of those same tiresome religious zealots.

    In all humility I would compare my general stance in these matters as aligning with the great one [Albert Einstein] and being agnostic rather then atheistic in content.

    I admire and always have, the "gentle" yet persuasive way that the great educator Carl Sagan can logically explain the evolution of the Universe and Life without once being insulting and derisive, while on the other hand, I find the abrasive style of Richard Dawkins as one that does not win many friends.
    The same situation in reverse is obvious with the official position of the Catholic church with regards to the BB and Darwinian evolution, when compared to the fire and brimstone stuff of YECs and the like.
  23. lightgigantic Banned Banned

    Did you make a typo or are you still trying to say secularism is non different from atheism?
    Any one can be charitable.
    In regards to the distinction with atheism you find that theism is highly socialized around the act and has scope to a platform of benevolence that renders the highest charitable act atheism could even hope to bequeath of no consequence (namely the cessation of the very material atmosphere that generates scenario requirements for charity/need

    It's obvious he is simply talking about issues surrounding the transparency of power and/or issues of who we can actually take as an ideal/sincere representative of a religious discipline .... Probably the most voluminous topic that contributes to scriptural commentary .... or indeed any sort of retrospective analysis of power structure that can be attributed to any sort authority on any sort of subject.
    Hell, even Dawkins loves to talk about who can and can't speak for atheism

    You can even find charitable smack heads ... The problem with them, and also atheists, however, is that the charity they provide is incapable of actually dealing an actual solution to the problem at hand.

    You are simply making thefallacious argument that a social institution that enjoys the highest representation in history also bears the brunt of blame attributed to all any sort of social institutions.
    Iow there are no brilliant social policies forthcoming from you about how to organize a global society bereft of issues of political schisms ..... in fact what you advocate exacerbates it

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