Does space bend In a pure vacuum ?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by river, Dec 15, 2019.

  1. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't actually ask "Does space bend in a pure vacuum?".

    I just linked to my earlier post and the link was "called" that automatically as it is the title of the thread.

    It is an interesting question though and I think I am now of the opinion that geometry itself may be a kind of "movable feast" that adapts to its environment like a chamaeleon.

    There seems to still be a mystery as to what actually is the mechanism that makes mass-energy curve spacetime and I would be interested as to whether spacetime is continuous or discrete(again unknown at present I am fairly sure)
     
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  3. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Certainly both unknown at this time, but the first point certainly aligns with the model perfectly....the second point is still being hotly debated I think.
     
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  5. river

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    To your last statement from immediate above quote .

    That is actually a fairy tale of mathematics ; not a physical reality .
     
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  7. river

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    To your first sentance in your last statement . Energy>mass ; does not have a grip on space . Understand what I mean ? Not not ask me .
     
  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Mathematics is the language of physics...we leave the fairy tales and bullshit to you and a few other ignorant would be's if they could be's.
     
  9. river

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    Pad said ;


    As I said above
     
  10. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    River, as per usual you appear confused...space, that between you and me, is not the same as spacetime. Time, the stuff that stops everything from happening together, is not spacetime. Spacetime bends and warps in the presence of mass/energy and as I have informed you, that is validated by many methods.
     
  12. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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  13. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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  14. river

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    In the presence of energy and mass .
     
  15. river

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    Everything is happening together .

    What " stuff " is time made of ?
     
  16. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Of course!!! Now you are learning!!That's exactly what I said...good onya river!
     
  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Don't be silly. Yesterday was yesterday, today at this time is now, tomorrow is yet to come from our perspective.
    It is made of nothing. Something does not need to be physical to be real. It still exists.
     
  18. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Let me define it all again river. Space is the regions between the planets and stars, but excluding their atmospheres.
    Time is the intervals between sequential events and is measured by a clock.
    Spacetime is the multi dimensional framework against which we locate all events. Spacetime follows from the observation that the speed of light is fixed and it does not vary with the motion of the emitter or the observer. This spacetime allows a description of reality that is common for all observers in the universe, regardless of their relative motion. Intervals of space and time considered separately are not the same for all observers.
     
  19. river

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    Thats just time zones . And Sun up Sun down .

    Imagine without time zones .
     
  20. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Yep time zones, so? They are all different time zones.
    I will now take a trip in my light space ship and travel away from you at 99.999c for six months and then turn around and return to you six months later according to my on board and my own biological clocks aboard my ship. Guess what river! You will be long dead and buried and I will be returning to an Earth around 223 years in the future.
     
  21. river

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    Thanks but I'm not done here yet .

    Why does space exist in the first place ?

    Can space exist alone without energy>matter existing in the first place , can space exist by its self ?

    Or does space need energy and matter to exist ?

    Is space a consequence of energy and matter ?

    Or do space , energy , matter , manifest at the same moment ?
     
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Of course not, as dave has been doing his darndest to educate you to know avail.
    The space and the time [spacetime ] came into existance at around 10-43 seconds after the BB. Before that we can only speculate as to why and how.
    https://einstein.stanford.edu/content/relativity/a11332.html
    Can space exist by itself without matter or energy around?
    No. Experiments continue to show that there is no 'space' that stands apart from space-time itself...no arena in which matter, energy and gravity operate which is not affected by matter, energy and gravity. General relativity tells us that what we call space is just another feature of the gravitational field of the universe, so space and space-time do not exist apart from the matter and energy that creates the gravitational field. This is not speculation, but sound observation.
    See previous link.
    No, matter and energy are a consequence of spacetime.
    The BB was the evolution of space and time [spacetime] as we know them, along with the four forces which in that first instant were united as one superforce.

    Now river, I have answered as best as I can and to the best of my knowledge. I'm not 100% sure that all my answers are scientifically correct. So why don't you now stop being cunning and conniving into trying to "trap"people, and instead try and be honest and let it all out as to what you believe happened. Oh, and some evidence would be nice.
     
  23. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Besides the perhelion shift of Mercury and gravitational lensing, there is another experiment which has shown that spacetime warps, bends, twists and waves in the presence of mass energy. It was the GP-B experiment which showed that the rotating Earth does indeed twist within its immediate vicinity, the spacetime surrounding it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_Probe_B

    Gravity Probe B (GP-B) was a satellite-based mission to test two unverified predictions of general relativity: the geodetic effect and frame-dragging. This was to be accomplished by measuring, very precisely, tiny changes in the direction of spin of four gyroscopes contained in an Earth satellite orbiting at 650 km (400 mi) altitude, crossing directly over the poles.

    The satellite was launched on 20 April 2004 on a Delta II rocket.[4] The spaceflight phase lasted until 2005;[5] its aim was to measure spacetime curvature near Earth, and thereby the stress–energy tensor (which is related to the distribution and the motion of matter in space) in and near Earth. This provided a test of general relativity, gravitomagnetism and related models. The principal investigator was Francis Everitt.

    Initial results confirmed the expected geodetic effect to an accuracy of about 1%. The expected frame-dragging effect was similar in magnitude to the current noise level (the noise being dominated by initially unmodeled effects due to nonuniform coatings on the gyroscopes). Work continued to model and account for these sources of error, thus permitting extraction of the frame-dragging signal. By August 2008, the frame-dragging effect had been confirmed to within 15% of the expected result,[6] and the December 2008 NASA report indicated that the geodetic effect was confirmed to better than 0.5%.
     

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