Does time exist?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by Asexperia, Sep 28, 2015.

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  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Time is not an illusion, Time does not exist at all until it emerges along with change.

    The first known change (measured from our coordinate) occurred during the BB (t=0}, some 14.7 billion years ago. The age of the universe.

    As time flows continuously, we have given arbitrary names to increments of time, using *c* as the upper limit of measurable change.(386,000 m/sec, at which point physical existence is not possible.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
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  3. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    My bold highlight your post

    Which change is called AGE not TIME

    NOW came into existence at the BIG BANG and it has been NOW ever since

    It has never been the past we live in

    And we have no ability to live in the future

    Past and future do not exist sorry

    Don't know why I'm sorry I didn't set up this system

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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Time = incremental measurement of duration of process. AGE = full measure of Time from beginning to end.
    Is *half-life* a measurement of time, age, or quantity?
     
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  7. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    time
    \ˈtīm\
    noun
    • : the thing that is measured as seconds, minutes, hours, days, years, etc.
    Full Definition
    • 1 a : the measured or measurable period during which an action, process, or condition exists or condition exists or continues: duration
    Ummmm not sure time is a thing

    age
    \ˈāj\
    noun
    • : the amount of time during which a person or animal has lived
    • : the amount of time during which a thing has existed
    • : the time of life when a persondoes something or becomes legallyable to do something
    Full Definition
    • 1 a : the time of life at which someparticular qualification, power, or capacity arises or rests <the votingage is 18>; specifically : majority
      b : one of the stages of life
      c : the length of an existenceextending from the beginning to any given time <a boy 10 years of age>
      d : lifetime
      e : an advanced stage of life
    half–life
    \-ˌlīf\
    noun
    • : the time it takes for a radioactivesubstance to lose half its radioactivity
    Full Definition
    • 1 : the time required for half of something to undergo a process: as
      a : the time required for half of the atoms of a radioactive substance to become disintegrated
      b : the time required for half the amount of a substance (as a drug, radioactive tracer, or pesticide) in or introduced into a living system or ecosystem to be eliminated or disintegrated by natural processes
    • 2 : a period of usefulness or popularity preceding decline or obsolescence <slang usually has a short half–life>
    First use: 1907

    So sayith Mirriam-Webster

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    Below sayith me from my book reading about Time but which being print on paper from which I cannot cutith and pasteith I have to typeith

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    Time

    An illusion of movement of passage of change

    Age

    A arbitrary measurement between arbitrary NOWs expressed under various names to many to list here

    Other entities in the Universe have their own arbitrary units of age

    All except the Glopglop who don't live long enough to have any age

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    Half-life

    A measurement of AGE during which half of the QUANTITY of the substance becomes inactive or half of the QUANTITY of the substance remains active depending on your outlook on life

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    So AGE and QUANTITY but not TIME

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  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I understand there is a relationship and what you are saying, but it is not correct to equate time with age.

    Quick example of both verbs. Is there a difference between *timing* and *aging*? Counting time is an additive process, age is the sum of the addition.
     
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  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Deleted for duplication.
     
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  10. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    I don't

    Since I contend TIME does not exist I would be hard put to equate it with anything

    Yes

    Counting time is the addition of arbitrary units

    Adding up years gives your AGE years

    Adding up other units would produce AGE in those units

    *****

    Timing would be

    the addition of a suitable arbitrary unit
    to count between arbitrary NOWs
    to obtain how many arbitrary units
    were between the arbitrary NOWs

    Probably for comparison to another set

    *****

    Ageing

    is the process (changes occurring) from a arbitrary start NOW to a current NOW stopping at any NOW to fix the AGE
     
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Mind, I am not disagreeing, but what happened to the Past? Can we say "the Past-Now"?
    I realize there was a NOW, which has since passed and currently is another NOW.

    Thus IMO, this is how the NOW becomes the PAST and TIME is the arbitrary measurement of duration between the two states.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
  12. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    It vanishes

    There is no existing past which makes going there impossible

    You can refer to the past in the form of
    ' In 1969 these certain events occurred... '

    1969 would have at either side a start NOW and a stop NOW

    No

    NOW becomes NOTHING


    No

    The arbitrary measurement of duration between the two states is AGE

    I understand it would be strange to say 1969 is 1 year of AGE

    But shift the arbitrary NOW points slightly

    Instead of starting at the start of 1969 and finishing at the end of 1969

    Move them to the start of one of your Birthday Days to the start of your next Birthday Days

    Have you not gained (added) 1 year of AGE?

    You have not gained (added) any units of NOW because NOW does not have any units hence TIME does not have any units because it does not exist

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  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Hmmm, you're beginning to lose me on that one.
    Not the way I see it. I will have added a year of TIME . My new AGE depends on my AGE one year in the PAST. But we are now debating semantics.
    I do agree that TIME does not exist as an independent or causal dimension. My understanding is that TIME emerges as a concurrent side-effect of duration of change.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_the_universe
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
  14. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    I worked on this through the day on and off so it might be a bit ragged

    But we are now debating semantics

    Oh no not the dreaded semantics

    But to be serious

    We may need to agree to disagree

    But I can have another shot with a slight different take on my time like a movie style explanation

    By the way it relates to any visual recording medium just film is the easiest medium to visualise

    Lay out on a bench a strip of movie film

    Looking at each frame you see a sequence of stills

    Between the stills is a break

    Running the film through the projector the light is cut off when the break is passing between the light and the projector lens (and on to the screen)

    Run the film at high speed when making the movie and normal speed when playing back and you get slow motion

    Run the film at very slow speed when making the movie and normal speed when playing back you get time lapse or stop motion (have to put time lapse because that is the current definetion - not what I would have put)

    There are other effects you can manipulate film to show but not in relation to this post

    Now stop the movie so only one frame is shown (as this is a thought bubble forget about the film bursting into flames)

    So

    projector stopped

    single frame being shown

    But as you look back at the screen you see the subjects still moving

    What is going on?

    The subjects moving in the single frame are NOW

    Those in the single frame being shown cannot move down to the frames below the lens the past

    They also cannot move up to the frames above the lens the future

    Check back at the projector
    Film not moving
    Single frame being shown
    Strip of film below the lens is the past but as far as lens is concerned it does not exist
    Strip of film above the lens is the future but as far as the lens is concerned it does not exist

    But wait there is more

    It is in fact a mistake to view TIME as a movie with a succession of still frames

    NOW has always been a single frame not needing old frames as past and new frames as future

    So now we can consider TIME as a single SLIDE in a slide projector

    Now our puzzle is how physics produces a smooth single unbroken NOW full of movement and change (which are somewhat the same)

    Anybody???

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  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry I just missed editing my post

    My friend was checking it and mentioned I had missed out his take

    So here it is

    His wife says to do a chore

    If he answers I'll do it tomorrow she knows he will never do it

    Yes you guessed it

    Tomorrow never comes

    He says it fits in with it is always NOW

    I tend to agree with him and now I have put it in a post he owes me a beer

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  16. Asexperia Valued Senior Member

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    Time is the cause of change. We measure time by its effects: changes.
     
  17. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    I contend it is not TIME which is measured but AGE
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Ok, before I let go,

    NOW is a momentary STATE and not a form of measurement in and of itself. Measuring of duration or geometry is done via increments of TIME.

    But I really wanted to know if you are familiar with David Bohm's work, I can recommend it. A small example which addresses the existence of the past and future.
    http://www.davidpratt.info/bohm.htm
     
  19. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    No but I read your link and now know something

    So I guess it is agree to disagree

    Much but not all of my musings come from a book titled The Invention of Time and Space by Patrice F Dassonville

    I have the electronic version

    Heavy reading for me and I estimate I only understood about 10%

    I am looking for another book, a real one, I have had for years and while I am sure I didn't sell it during a clean up time I can't find it

    Want to reread and see if it puts new thoughts into my 2 neurones

    Cheers
     
  20. Asexperia Valued Senior Member

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    Time passes the same throughout the universe.
    The clock is its standard measure.
     
  21. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Time does not repeat or cycle, like a clock. A clock does not accurately express time, since a clock will cycle, while time will not. As a home experiment, look yourself at 12 noon today and then the next day at 12 noon. One can photograph each occurrence or you and the clock, as the clock cycles between two identical states on the clock. You will not be the same, as you move forward in time. You will be different. This is a source of confusion about time. A clock does not parallel the way time flows.

    As an analogy, say I told you to order all these shells by size. You decide to use a scale. You would be using the wrong tool; scale instead of ruler, to order by size, thereby ending up with a sequence that may be wrong for size, but will be right based on the wrong tool; weight. This creates confusion.

    A better clock, to reflect the flow of time, would be the dead fish clock. This is where we use a dead fish to measure time. The flow and measure of time will be connected to the ever increasing level of stink from the rotting fish. Like the flow of time, the stink continue to change state, as time moves forward. You cannot un-stink the fish clock, therefore it does not cycle. The fish clock is less practical, but its closer to how time propagates, which is not via a cycle, wave that repeats. Clocks are more practical, but practical does not reflect the reality of time.

    The flow of time is closer to the concept of entropy, than it is to energy. The decaying fish undergoes entropy changes, which can be different for the next fish. Energy cycles via waves, but entropy reflects increasing complexity. The fish clock is more like a 3-D spiral, where time moves the z-axis. The current methods to measure time, look at this spiral below from above, and appear to see a circle in 2-D, without the z-axis of entropy.



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  22. Asexperia Valued Senior Member

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    The clock just divides the duration of the day
    Into hours, minutes and seconds.
     
  23. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Incorrect

    TIME does not exist and a clock can never repeats or cycle

    A clock may accurately express AGE in whatever arbitrary units you choose to use provided you have calibrated it against another clock and both clocks agree.

    But since the units are arbitrary you can only agree the two clocks measurement of AGE are equal

    A third clock in disagreement with the accurate two would indicate a different AGE

    Both you and clock would have AGED 24 hours

    There can never be two identical states on the clock

    The clock would have undergone some sort of entropy even if only on a microscopic scale (AGED)

    Nor will the clock be the same

    You have both AGED

    TIME does not exist hence you cannot move in TIME or follow any sort of direction

    So will the clock

    Sorry I don't see any analogy

    TIME does not flow as it does not exist

    Only NOW exist

    ...measure of AGE will be connected to the ever increasing level of stink...

    the stink continue to change state

    AGE

    time moves forward

    No TIME

    NO move

    NO direction

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