# Does time exist?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Asexperia, Sep 28, 2015.

1. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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The distance between the Q and the P on my laptop can have a measurement without involving changes or time.

3. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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Try again.

Last edited: Feb 26, 2017

5. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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No, that will do nicely. My example refutes your assertion.

'Try again' is a non-response.

7. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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Read my original statement again, more closely.

8. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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You're just re-insisting its true, with no elaboration.
I read your post, and responded, showing a distance that exists independent of time and change.
If you think otherwise, you'll need to assert it.

9. ### AsexperiaRegistered Senior Member

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Michael 345 said: I'm not aware of this concept of duality becoming trilogy
This is the first I have seen this concept mentioned.

These are recent ideas within the evolution of the Philochrony.

10. ### Michael 345In China - finding my way :)Valued Senior Member

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OK

Sounds in the language of the day (or more of 60's 70's) a bit airy fairy and not something I will be following

Cheers for the info

11. ### AsexperiaRegistered Senior Member

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From the post 712:Time is the variable that increases continuously (time is mathematical).

Time is the variable that increases continuously causing:
a) aging,
b) deterioration of things and
c) the succession of events.

12. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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OK, I didn't want to hijack the thread, but if you insist:
How far is distance without measurement of length of known coordinates?
What is time without measurement of duration of known change?

By settings reference points P and Q you have already measured the length of a distance, which now may no longer be variable but exists in time as a measurement.

I posited that the prope4rties of *distance* (not a distance) are akin to the properties of time in that they do not exist independent of measurement. Both are variable results of asurements of change.or duration.

Point being that neither is a causal function, but a result of a host of prior functions

13. ### AsexperiaRegistered Senior Member

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In an unmeasured distance there is no change.
Is the measurement of distance a change?
But the distance does not vary when measured.

14. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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IMO, measurement is the "fixing" of a distance from a variable unknown to a known value at a known time.

15. ### Michael 345In China - finding my way :)Valued Senior Member

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I understand measurement to be

the allocation of arbitrary units

between arbitrary points and giving the result

the arbitrary name of measurement

16. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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If you like. My point was that the same rationale applies to Time, where the arbitrary increments are expressed as units of time instead of units of distance.
This similarity is used in the use of the term "light-year", which is an expression of distance as well as time.

Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
17. ### Michael 345In China - finding my way :)Valued Senior Member

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I'm not sure how much you have seen of other post

From my understanding of time from my readings, a very interesting book, The Invention of Space and Time, and a few others

Here goes

TIME does not exist
The PAST does not exist
The FUTURE does not exist
NOW only exist
There is no direction of time
No arrow of time

From the book

But there is no time in pure mathematics.
Although the concept is used in applied mathematics (in mathematical models of
physics), its nature has never been described by mathematicians. When we analyze a mathematical model, a field model effect tends to make us believe that time is an active factor in evolving systems, and that time is a physical phenomenon. In fact, time is a reference parameter; it is an abstract concept, rather than a physical phenomenon.

My emphasis

and

Time is not a component of the Universe: time does not contain any information
and time is not necessary for reporting phenomena, e.g., the Big Bang occurred c. 13.7 billion years ago, which is equivalent to 13.7 billion
terrestrial revolutions.

This attests to the idea that time has no physical properties, which is a major
additional argument in favour of the idea that time does not exist:

NO PHYSICAL PROPERTIES = PHYSICAL INEXISTENCE

My emphasis

This similarity is used in the use of the term "light-year", which is an expression of distance as well as time

Light year refers to the distance

(arbitrary unit between two arbitrary points - start point end point)

light travels in one year

(arbitrary unit - start NOW end NOW)

Leaves start point at start NOW

Arrives end point at end NOW

The lead photon has AGED one year

(arbitrary unit)

The lead photon has NOT measured time

The AGE has been imposed onto the photon because it travelled a arbitrary unit (distance)

Other post attack the concept of time from the idea of a movie which I won't repeat here at NOW

18. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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Hmmm, is that not what I posited?

19. ### Michael 345In China - finding my way :)Valued Senior Member

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My pretzel of a brain has become even more twisted under this thread so I have lost track

I am not sure if your position is time exist or time does not exist

That's a defect in my pretzel not a reflection on your post

The section of the post you replied to with ' Hmmm, is that not what I posited? ' is from the book so while I agree with the statement I do not claim it as being mine

This statement has two aspects as you note ' distance ' and ' time '

Both as you also note use arbitrary units

This is what I find tricky to explain but here goes

The distance measurement can be repeated since a start and finish co-ordinates exist and are available to revisit

There is only a single NOW in which we exist

There are no existing other NOWs available to visit (ie time travel)

Yes the past start NOW and finish NOW can be imagined and the AGE between them calculated

Same for all NOWs

AGE between them can be established BUT none can ever be visited

The term light year mixing as it does a distance unit and a time unit gives an impression both exist

Distance does

Time does not

pretzel needs a rest

20. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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See posts 710 and 729

21. ### Michael 345In China - finding my way :)Valued Senior Member

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I would like to do just that

However my post are sent from a Huawei RIO L02 mobile phone with a 5" screen which for some reason does not number the post

I'm to lazy to check though 37 pages to find number 710 and 729 which would take up some time to count

Sorry

22. ### AsexperiaRegistered Senior Member

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THE PUZZLE OF TIME

Time is the variable that ACTUATES continuously causing:
a) aging,
b) the deterioration of things,
c) the succession of events and
d) the duration of things

- The measure of time is a mathematical entity
- We perceive changes
- We do not perceive the time intervals
- The units of time are intelligible
- At 65 years old I have only changed my appearance: child, adolescent, adult and elderly.
- The past are memories and the future expectations

Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2017
23. ### hansdaValued Senior Member

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Past can be considered as Certainty, because the event has occurred and it is known. Future can be considered as Uncertainty, because it is still unknown, the event is yet to happen.Even if the future is uncertain or unknown, it still can be predicted with the known laws.

In this context, "Present" can be considered as a link between the "Certainty" and "Uncertainty". Present is some sort of mechanism through which the uncertainty gets converted into certainty.

Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
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