# Does time exist?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Asexperia, Sep 28, 2015.

1. ### river

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The workshop illustration is not good enough , it is incomplete .

Objectively , has been done by me , many , many , many yrs. ago . It is nothing new .

Time has no dimensional physical properties at all , in and of its self .

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3. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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of course, like all illustrations, but let us hear how you would complete it.

If by "physical" you mean concrete, material of course you are correct. If however you consider energy, the precursor, or alter ego of matter, that is another matter. Energy uncreated and indestructible is fundamental, so: It is contained by time into the indefinite past., and future. Both time and energy are fundamental, not emergent. What came first in infinities? That is why I propose
energytime, always,
timespace infinite but non dimensional, non directional, (as you said too)
masstime: since the BB, physical, tied to the 3 dimensions. traversed only into the future. aka spacetime.

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5. ### river

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So your arguement is a physcological aspect of energy and matter .

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7. ### nebelValued Senior Member

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can you elaborate please?

8. ### river

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Time is a psychological aspect of energy and matter .

Time is about movement which we all observe . Energy is about movement whether by force and or interactions which creates a force , speed , magnetism , vibrations , etc.

The speed of a car , speed being the time between two defined lines , start -finish .

But whether I define the time between the lines of , start-finish , is irrelevent to the velocity of the car itself .

The car will go between start - finish , at exactly the same speed or velocity whether I measure it or not .

Time measures the speed or velocity but without time does not negate the cars movement from one point to another .

Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
9. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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So, what was it before our advanced brains came along and psychologized it?

10. ### gamelordRegistered Senior Member

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Nothing truly exists without it being within the perceptual event horizon.

Although for inventions and theoretical purposes, it is useful to have the concept of assumed existence.
That is the usefulness of theories and equations, they can be used to predict and assume things. But an assumption does not actually exist, until the phenomenon is percieved in our perceptual event horizon of consciousness.

11. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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So, what did the universe do in the 10 billion years before perception came along?
Did it just sort of ... wait for us?

12. ### AsexperiaRegistered Senior Member

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DIFFERENT VIEWS ABOUT TIME

Time is a physical magnitude that affects all reality, but we do not have a specific sense to perceive the intervals. This makes each person get a different idea about the nature of time. There is no consensus on what time is.

1- Heraclitus of Ephesus (philosopher): becoming flows like a river, it is the Being.
2- Parmenides of Elea (philosopher): there are no changes, there is no time.
3- Aristotle of Estagira (philosopher): time exists when movement involves a number.
4- Galileo Galilei (physicist): movement is relative. If A moves with respect to B, B moves with respect to A.
5- Isaac Newton (physicist): time is real and absolute.
6- Immanuel Kant (philosopher): time is an a priori form.
7- Albert Einstein (physicist): time is an illusion and relative.
8- Henri Bergson (philosopher): rejected mathematical time.

9- Martin Heidegger (philosopher): time is the being-there or dasein, time is temporary.
10- Julian Barbour (physicist): time does not exist.
11- Paul Davies (physicist): defends the unidirectionality or arrow of time.
12- José Ignacio Latorre (physicist): time is a parameter that relates two movements.
13- Lee Smolin (physicist): time is real.
14- Bradford Skow (philosopher): past, present and future coexist in the universe.
15- David Eagleman (neurobiologist): time is invented by the brain.
16- Elvis Sibilia (psychologist): time is magnitive, that is, objective, imperceptible and measurable.

Meaning of colors:

Blue: time exists (4)
Black: intermediate (6)
Red: time does not exist (6)

Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
13. ### river

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The study of movement .

Before that , awareness of movement .

14. ### TheFroggerValued Senior Member

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Movement is changes in space, not time.

15. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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As I specified: in the first ten billion years there was nothing around to study or be aware of anything, yet certainly lots of things existed.

16. ### river

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Certainly . Okay so has got to do with time ?

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Lol river!

18. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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You said "Time is a psychological aspect of energy and matter"

Since
- "psychology" only came along with modern humans, and
- "the study of movement / awareness of movement" only came along with the creation of primitive life...

.. then time cannot be defined by them, since it has existed for ten billion years longer.

19. ### river

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So then time is defined by movement of physical things , regardless of whether any eyes are watching this movement .

Hence to the objects , micro and/or macro time means nothing to their fundamental movement .

20. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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How many times are you going to change your definition?
Why not think your thoughts through before posting them?
You've sort of used up a whole screen of discussion for nothing.
That's not very considerate.

21. ### river

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What definition of time did I change ?

22. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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You've provided three different ones on this page alone.

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Not to me .